Nonsensical.

So whats the argument going to be once the war inevitably starts to end? Russia will still hold the east. Ukraine looks not to implode at least for now but has only lost ground. Nothing was gained for the west for all the blood and treasure expended and we'll be left in a more precarious world, one with a more open door to further wars. We'll have inherited mouths to feed in a failed state and heavy weapons galore in the hands of actual nazis.

Only a handful of people like yours truly were harping on about the predictable consequences of the afghanistan war prior to it starting. Iraq was more easily recognized as a mistake. But for Ukraine, the writing has been on the wall, in our faces, blaring with sirens from on high for years. The war will be over and people are going to have to somehow retroactively justify our failure

Firstly, Ukraine never chose to be invaded, so the blame lies firmly with the aggressor here, Putin.
Secondly the takeaway is an extremely high price paid, by ordinary Russians and oligarchs alike for Putin's aggression; The alternative of course would have been a full appeasement, akin to the annexation of Crimea.
Which as we saw, only led to further aggression.

Recognise which failure though? Russia has failed in all of its military and strategic objectives. Ukraine was given a slim to zero chance of retaining any agency in the face of full scale invasion. Three years later the continue to do so.
Ukrainians chose to fight back. If they no longer want to oppose Russia, then the front would not hold. That is not the case.

So, Ukraine loses territory but continues to exist. When has that happened before in history? Ask South Koreans.
Even if Russia made it the the full extent of the Dnipro and Ukraine was partitioned between east and west. When did that happen before? Ask Germans.
Now compare Russian standard of living with both of those countries and ask who will inevitably be better of?

Either way, whenever there is any sort of ceasefire. Russia ends up with a neighbour armed to the teeth with modern military equipment, so who failed? Will Russia be "safer" then?

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 10 2025 03:19am

Quick correction: Another country is being wrecked because of Western foreign policies.

Only needed one sentence for that

West Ukrainians chose a revolution. Whatever CIA prodding was involved, whatever Biden VP era agitprop or shadow operations, the responsibility ultimately lays with Ukrainians who chose to overthrow a government and spark a civil war. Provoking Russia was a foreseeable consequence, not the independent actions of Russia to disrupt a peaceful status quo. Ukrainians had a united national identity with as much sovereignty as any non-world power could hope for, a generally functional democracy, and western Ukrainians are the ones who chose to throw it all away in the name of bloodshed and chaos.



Russia won. Their price wasn't too high. And Russian pain doesn't serve US interests in some sadistic form of zero sum geopolitics. America benefited nothing.
What did we gain from the status quo ante when Ukraine was nebulously in Russia's sphere of influence? We got a foothold in the west that is strategically barren, devoid of resources and full of ruins and mouths to feed. What did we gain from the decade of civil war, when it could have been resolved diplomatically before it turned hot? The west lost ground, ceded territory, abandoned critical resources, squandered lives. What did we gain from the past 3 years of hot warfare when we could have sued for peace? Ceded territory, abandoned critical resources, squandered lives again.



America showed its teeth with everything we could throw at a proxy war and Russia defeated it. What are we supposed to make them afraid of, that they'll have to defeat us again, after they've shown they can do it once?
Only a warmonger for war's sake would think it a victory when we are losing territory, bleeding away our allies, straining international relations, united our enemies in confederacy against us, undermining our global economic hegemony and showing ourselves to be paper tigers that cannot put in the force required to stake our claims. All we accomplished was more war.

Your premise is that the Russian military has achieved its goals and has defeated Ukraines military? Is that what you believe?
Also the provoking Russia because Ukraine overthrew deposed their own countries government notion, is borderline psychotic gymnastics.

The more I read, the more I understand this is not an honest or well informed take.

What percent of US budget has been spent supporting Ukraine, and what percentage of Russias federal budget is going directly to the war effort?
Just from a basic google search the US investment is ballpark 1% and the Russian defence spend is at least 30% of total government spending.

Checked again and US commitment was more like 1.5% of the fed budget and about 0.35% of gdp.
Against Russian spend which is actually roughly 40% of its budget and 8% of gdp. For 2025.

"Defense and security spending will exceed 8 percent of GDP and account for 40 percent of total federal expenditure" - https://carnegieendowment.org/russia-eurasia/politika/2024/12/russia-economy-difficulties?lang=en

The Russian military is barely hanging on while having to divert massive, massive portions of Russias budget and national reserve fund to making incremental gains.
This was supposed to be a walk in the park for Russia. Why has it been such a military failure? Incompetence? Bad intel? Over confidence? Corruption? Bad leadership?

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 10 2025 04:43am

All this to pretend like Russia isn't winning the war.
Its the Mission Accomplished level of denialism.

"The Russian military is barely hanging on". They will be out of missiles in just two weeks. Russia will implode. We're trading efficiently with our resources. Day NNN of a special operation. How many times can you repeat these tired lines before reality sinks in that this is yet another proxy war America has lost, the outcome was predictable from the start and I'm not nostradamus for having told you exactly how this would turn out, several years ago. Our best case scenario now is to cut our losses and negotiate a peace where Russia has seized territory, gained access to all kinds of resources, established an economic bloc with half the world aligned against us and our ability to project force as a deterrent is effectively nullified. And you want to cast that as our victory? We don't score points for every Russian killed, we don't win a zero sum game by having them spend a higher percent of their GDP on military. Our national interests have been sabotaged by picking a losing war

Lmao, resource rich. Russia is already resource rich and now you have to fund all the rebuild costs of everything flattened when you could get the same resources from your own country already.

To the blender boys, great success! - Typed from USA basement.

This post was edited by SBD on Jan 10 2025 09:22am

Reap what you sow?

EU / NATO were eying Ukraine because it's strategically important, resource rich and has huge swathes of some of the best farmlands available word-wide.

The country they'd loved to absorb into their union / military alliance is now wrecked beyond belief and untold numbers of it's people killed, wounded or simply missing --> Ukrainian casualties are never even mentioned / kept secret how's that propaganda treating you?

Like you say yourself, great success!

This post was edited by Djunior on Jan 10 2025 10:01am

Propaganda? I have no dog in this fight friend. You just assume instantly because something negative is said about Russia that I have some chosen side. I think your head must be overflowing with malice for anyone who says anything slightly negative about Russia, be that because you yourself are pumped full of propaganda or you just enjoy fighting on the internet and picked your dog, I have no idea nor care.

I already said, I see both as losers here, with the real winners being not the two dogs at each others neck.