That’s literally tyrants usurping power 101: Implement martial law.

Ukranians all wish this war never happened. Minsk 2 was a reasonable framework. It’s beyond me why it needed to be trashed.

Perhaps that video of Zelensky visiting Azov in 2019 on the front line is quite telling as to why?I believe there are still copies of that visit available online. It seems the president wasn’t really in a position to overrule Nazis. The same Nazis who overthrew Yanukovich.

It wouldn't make sense for the USA or EU to stage a coup for a number of reasons:
- imminent fresh presidential elections in Ukraine; Yanukovych was widely predicted to lose to Klitschko in 2nd round
- giving Russia a clear pretext to meddle later on in more obvious ways
- destabilising a large mostly democratic country where they could just wait things out

But if you prefer to believe into conspiracies, well you do you.

How do you guys spin this specific narrative? I'm actually curious. It's the first time I hear of a Nazi group with EU-allegiance interests.

You're conflating the pro-EU protests with a conspiracy theory that got invented much later. I'm curious to hear the theory, but let's be clear that it's a conspiracy theory.

Funnily enough - Ukranian Nazis are opportunistic and don’t want neither Russia nor EU. They want something they call Intermarium - an alliance of Baltics, Belorussia /Poland, Balkans and Ukraine. Sort of restoring Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth for White People without Jews/Muslims/Black people. Thats why so many swastika tattooed Europeans “volunteer” for Azov, Aidar, Kraken and so on.

You are free to read their telegram blogs full of swastikas and wolfsangels. They are quite open about what they want.

This post was edited by Malopox on Nov 20 2024 08:25am

Man, I don't even have Telegram, specifically because of the kind of people that seem to use it a lot

Thanks for the info though!

Not to mention that the EU and NATO were dangling juicy carrots like the EU - Ukraine Association Agreement promising financial aid to Ukraine and the EU paid Ukraine's gas bill to Gazprom to name another example.

Obviously a poor country like Ukraine is going to lean towards the EU and more and more Ukrainians are going to vote pro EU / NATO.

Basically the main gripe with the current situation in Ukraine is Neo Nazi tendencies. It has a very dark history rooted in 1920s post-WW1 opportunism as people were carving out little countries out of collapsing empires of Austria/Hungary and Russia. There was a faction in the west of Ukraine around Lviv/Kiev that wanted their own country but got roflstomped by Bolsheviks + Polish.

Bolsheviks & Polish then tried to assimilate the population into their respective cultures. Locals didn’t like that as assimilation was violent and thought Nazis are a lesser evil (compared to Polish/Soviets). They collaborated with Nazis, ethnically cleansing their land of Jews, Polish, Russians and everyone not onboard with their plans. They then realized Nazis are not going to let them self govern because they were considered dirty untermenschen (Slavic mixed with Mongolians). Soviets won and majority of collaborators escaped to Canada via Rimini POW camp. Canada accepted Ukranian nazi collaborators to crush local socialists who were all ex Russian empire and could’ve been sympathetic to USSR.

Anyhow after USSR collapsed Ukraine needed an “identity” separate from Russian and they embarked on an “nation building” cultural renaissance - mostly driven by West Ukraine (East Ukraine was busy working the factories, the fields and the mines and didn’t really care how to call themselves). As a part of that identity building they embraced OUN-B (not OUN-M, important) and UPA as well as 14th Waffen SS Galicia battalion as a part of their “lore”. All of these were horrific Nazis who murdered hundreds of thousands. OUN-M was against Nazis and Soviets and got murdered during WW2

Lots of people didn’t like this new idea of embracing Bandera (OUN-B, Red/Black flag that you see). Hence the schism between East and West in Ukraine. Bandera Nazi followers of the 21st century are extremely violent opportunists, armed with the latest NATO weapons and a boatload of money who want their “own” country without Jews, Russians, Gays, Black, Muslims and so on. No EU either.

It sickens me that contemporary EU/US propaganda overlooks that angle since February 2022 now as willingness of those Nazis to die is being used to fight a proxy war against Russia. I’ve personally had a misfortune of sitting through a “inspirational” presentation of a Canadian descendant of an escaped Nazi collaborator describe how his “friends at the third assault brigade” are “fighting the orcs”.

This post was edited by Malopox on Nov 20 2024 08:47am

Conspiracies? You got to be joking

The West has been absorbing Eastern European countries into NATO for decades.

Yalta EU strategy forum was founded in 2004, discussing Ukraine's future in the EU.

In 2008 NATO officially welcomed Ukraine and Georgia as future members.

Western officials visited and publicly supported Ukraine @EuroMaidan.

The West has financially supported Ukraine in numerous ways.

The only conspiracy here is the West conspiring to reel in Ukraine from Russia's sphere of influence into their own sphere of influence

This post was edited by Djunior on Nov 20 2024 08:44am

Conspiring? Both Russia and EU were very openly trying to push Ukraine their way.

The only conspiracy here is the claim that the EU / USA would be so stupid to give guns & power to a random Nazi fringe group they found in a shop with extremist groups.