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Nov 19 2024 04:38pm
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Nov 19 2024 05:08pm
Quote (Ashirgo @ Nov 19 2024 02:56pm)
A quick fact check shows that the pro-Western Yulia Tymoshenko got 46% of the popular vote in the 2nd round of the elections, so it's by no means a "minority group".
Also, in early 2013 their parliament voted 315 vs 34 to continue down the EU path. This doesn't look like a minority to me.


And Yanukovych got 50% of the vote. 50% > 46%. That is what it means to be a minority in a democracy.
In a republic, there are rules governing how elections work, who takes power and how people are represented. If you refuse to abide by those rules and throw out the results of elections and take power by force, you aren't a democracy, you're a dictatorship.

This is all very basic and there's no argument to be had here. There is nothing you can say that is going to magically change the fact that the Ukrainian democracy was overthrown by an armed revolution, that a US puppet government was set up in its place and the majority of the country disenfranchised and persecuted. The best argument you can make is an appeal to realpolitik, to admit that the US backed a color revolution to overthrow a country in Russia's sphere of influence and seize it by force- and that we should support it anyway. Out of cynical self-interest, not some highminded bullshittery about democratic ideals. But even that argument fell apart before this war even began. Because it was entirely predictable that Russia would invest the force necessary to reclaim their influence in Ukraine, and the US/EU would be unwilling to act. And it is as simple as that. You can only claim what you can hold.
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Nov 19 2024 05:37pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 20 2024 12:08am)
.


Then you need to look up the terms that you're using. A political minority is not the same as a "minority group".

Public support for EU integration was between 70 to 50 percent across the country in 2012. This is not a minority.
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Nov 19 2024 05:51pm
Quote (Ashirgo @ Nov 19 2024 05:37pm)
Then you need to look up the terms that you're using. A political minority is not the same as a "minority group".

Public support for EU integration was between 70 to 50 percent across the country in 2012. This is not a minority.


A democracy decides who is in the majority and who is in the minority. They held an election. The majority candidate won.
You do not get to claim to represent a majority if you lose an election, there is no public mandate given to a losing candidate, there is no legitimacy to insurrectionists trying to overturn the results of an election by force.
Funny how quickly such lessons are forgotten
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Nov 19 2024 06:06pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Nov 19 2024 03:51pm)
A democracy decides who is in the majority and who is in the minority. They held an election. The majority candidate won.
You do not get to claim to represent a majority if you lose an election, there is no public mandate given to a losing candidate, there is no legitimacy to insurrectionists trying to overturn the results of an election by force.
Funny how quickly such lessons are forgotten


Forgotten, or never taught?
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Nov 19 2024 06:12pm
Quote (El1te @ 20 Nov 2024 08:06)
Forgotten, or never taught?


Taught but doing spins to fit personal virtues and current narratives.
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Nov 19 2024 06:34pm
Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Nov 19 2024 04:12pm)
Taught but doing spins to fit personal virtues and current narratives.


Possibly... the department of 'education' has worked overtime since 1980 to control & censor what is being taught at *all* schools in America, and we know with certainly that they are an explicitly communist organization. Putting 2 and 2 together here yields the conclusion that they've been brainwashing America's youth to communism, which rejects any sort of representative democracy
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Nov 19 2024 06:41pm
Ukraine has been using ATACMS since the day of receiving it in 4 regions been included to the Constitution of the Russian Federation, Kherson, Zaporizhzhia, DPR, LPR, not to mention Crimea. What has changed since then? According to the Russian nuclear doctrine of 2020, a nuclear response will follow either an attack by ballistic missiles or an impact on "critically important" objects, the disabling of which "will lead to the disruption of the retaliatory actions of nuclear forces." Let me remind you that Ukraine attacked the Voronezh-DM radar, which is part of the Missile Attack Warning System (SPRN) for detecting the launch of ballistic nuclear missiles. I believe that in an alternative Universe, where red lines mean something, brave cowboys from PaRD are slicing and stockpiling ghoul's filet.

This post was edited by Norlander on Nov 19 2024 06:49pm
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Nov 20 2024 01:35am
https://www.washingtonpost.com/national-security/2024/11/19/biden-landmines-ukraine-russia/

In another case of "remember, we're the good guys!" Biden is supplying land mines to Ukraine en masse now, another formal policy change post election. And most likely more consequential, since no matter how much they lie about specs, we're going to end up with mined border areas after the war ends. Looks like a heavily militarized demilitarized zone is on the menu
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Nov 20 2024 03:13am
Young Ukranian guy who was trying to get famous by annoying Russian speaking businesses in Odessa got bussified by a press gang and sent to the front.

First thing he did was change his insta tag:…


Mobilized language inspector from Odesa, Oleksandr Leonenko, is urgently raising half a million hryvnias for a bribe to be released

https://m.antikor.com.ua/en/articles/735992-mobilizovannyj_jazykovoj_inspektor_iz_odessy_aleksandr_leonenko_srochno_sobiraet_polmilliona_griven_vzjatki_chtoby_ego_vypustili

This post was edited by Malopox on Nov 20 2024 03:17am
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