So firmly that in early 2013 their parliament voted 315 vs 34 to continue down the EU path.

I get it that you don't care about Ukraine and would gladly give it to Russia. Many people have a different view.

Poland complains that Germany has talked to Russia unilaterally (without consulting NATO allies) and potentially discussed restart of Nord Stream that Ukranians bombed

https://www.pap.pl/en/news/polish-president-says-scholz-putin-conversation-mistake



This post was edited by Malopox on Nov 19 2024 07:11am

We live in the upside down world.

Buying cheaper energy from next door = energy risk
Importing energy from much further and more expensive ME or US markets = energy independence.

Much less toxic masculinity, I guess?

I think they are concerned they cannot control German decisions through supranational structures and strong Germany might retake leadership roles in the EU. Based on our Polish friends posts I assume they consider themselves “Western Europe” and want one day lead Europe or at the very least be treated equally in political weight to Germany and France.

Poland's success is largely a derivative of German economic strength and growth. You can't really separate the two. The poles should be careful what they wish for, i don't think there's a scenario under which Germany implodes economically while Poland somehow flourishes.

I tend to agree with you, but I’m sure can throw you down a plan how they think they can.

Again with the histrionic unhinged fear mongering about Russia marching their armies across Europe

Russia isn't that scary. Why so afraid?

This post was edited by El1te on Nov 19 2024 09:44am

I was told on good authority by here that what you're saying is Western propaganda

Of course Scholz called Putin because negotiations about an end to this war are on the horizon and he wanted to feel out the situation - whether Putin might have changed his mind on some things, to stake a bargaining position of the West, etc.

It is this latter context in which Scholz' demand for a full retreat of the Russian soliders must be viewed. I have a rather low opinion of Scholz, but he's not an idiot. He knows that Crimea and the Donbass are gone and won't be coming back. The goal of the West is to get a negotiated peace in which Russia stops its warfare in exchange for Ukraine and the West acknowledging Russian ownership of what they currently control. Probably with Ukraine renouncing any NATO ambitions, hopefully (from their pov) with the permission to seek EU membership.

To get to this outcome, the West will of course open the bargain with too ambitious demands, as you always do. Signalling to Putin that the West won't just drop Ukraine also seeks to improve their bargaining position. As does allowing Ukraine to strike Russian targets deep inside Russia. The more determined the West appears and the more risk for painful hits and uncalculable escalation there are, the more likely Putin will be to take a comparatively favorable deal which gets him out of this war with enough spoilts to sell it as a legacy-building "win" to his domestic audience.

The big question mark is about whether Putin will be inclined to take this deal although the West's position is a fairly transparent bluff. We simply don't know how close the Russian economy is to overheating, how much of their Soviet-era stockpiles are left, how much support the war still has in Russia or how badly he wants to take Odessa/Dnipro/Kharkiv.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 19 2024 10:51am