https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/15/politics/parnas-trump-special-mission-ukraine/index.html



Trump has an incredible gift of surrounding and associating himself with incompetent criminals. It's just amazing... what would be a serious scandal under a normal administration is just one aspect of the much larger Ukraine story.

Why even bother pretending you care? Lol... I don't know why Trump people can't just admit that they don't care about Trump's corruption. There's no need to spin nonsensical counter-narratives. Just be honest with yourselves.

This post was edited by IceMage on Nov 16 2019 03:28am

Reading last posts it's coherent: the "big guy" is focusing on "big stuff"...

From that guy's opening statement:



This is important to the story. We need to think about the Ukrainian perspective of this story to fully understand the damage the president was doing to US interests in order to benefit himself personally.

Again, if Trump wanted to stop supporting Ukraine as president as a policy choice, that's his right. It's insane to do so, but it's his right. This wasn't that.

The fact that Trump was willing to meet at the White House with Erdogan, whose army shelled an American outpost in Syria a couple weeks prior, but was unwilling to meet with the new Ukrainian president, a guy trying to fight Russia on Ukraine's eastern territory... it's despicable.

This post was edited by IceMage on Nov 16 2019 04:03am

ego protection, quite clearly.
literally everyone outside their little bubble predicted they would go all-in on the non-sensical witness discrediting / whataboutism / sham investigation narratives, while ignoring all the credible evidence and outright proof of trump's crooked and corrupt behaviour - and it's playing out exactly like that, they just can't help themselves. that's why it's called a 'cult'.

Sorry, but to me this sounds like someone is severely overstating the United States' geopolitical interest in such a meeting between the presidents... Zelensky's anti-corruption efforts at home surely dont hinge on how close the Ukrainian public thinks he is to Trump. Peace efforts with Putin dont hinge on PR, they hinge on a cold-hearted, sober cost-benefit analysis of the situation on the ground. In other words, on how many javelin missiles the Ukrainians have in order to inflict punishment on Russian aggression.




Erdogan is the leader of a long-time NATO ally and a country whose geopolitical importance is magnitudes above that of Ukraine. Furthermore, the situation in and around Turkey is quite volatile at the moment, while the situation in Ukraine is a "frozen conflict" with nothing too big going on. From a neutral perspective, it makes sense to consider a meeting with Erdogan to have a higher priority than one with Zelensky.

On top of that, according to the transcript released by the WH yesterday, Trump offered Zelensky a WH visit in their first ever phone call, with no strings attached. Now, this might be twisted propaganda by Trump's team, so I'd really like to see the verbatim version of this transcript instead of the released summary - but if the version the WH published yesterday proves to be truthful, than the accusations that Trump was withholding the WH visit to put pressure on Zelensky are rebutted.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 16 2019 05:17am

Trump agreed to meet Ukraine's Zelensky without preconditions, White House transcript shows

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/president-trump-agrees-to-meet-ukraines-zelenskyy-without-preconditions-white-house-transcript-shows



So.... Trump inviting Zelensky to the White House "w/e he gets situated over there", doesn't count? What exactly are you trying to "spin" this time?


Summary so far...


1. Wednesday's hearing was a bunch of hearsay containing NO hard evidence of any wrong doing.
2. Friday's hearing brought us two sets of actual facts. One, Yovanovitch answered NO, twice to questions about whether Trump did anything illegal, and YES to the question about Biden withholding $1 billion USA until Shokin was fired.


I guess I must be slow, as I still can't see what the hub bub is about. The further the hearing progress, the better and MORE innocent Trump looks.
And, I might add, these are hearings where the Republicans are at a distinct disadvantage in that they can call no witnesses and they have to adhere to Schiff's obvious BS as chairman.

All I see from these recent posts is that our EU posters, hate Trump and want him gone, even if he DIDN'T break any laws. And our own Icemage wants to make misleading connections where we have NO proof any existed.

This post was edited by Ghot on Nov 16 2019 05:31am

yeah, because after that first phone call he couldn't have possibly changed his stance and communicated that in any other way, right?
always amazes me how you people are willing to insult your own intelligence and throw common sense and basic logic out the window in order to make excuses for your cult leader.

Fair enough, I was too sloppy in phrasing this.

What it should read is: "if the version the WH published proves to be truthful, then the accusations have to be considered rebutted for now, until evidence to the contrary appears".

which "accusations" specifically do you think that would debunk? literally no one even suggested anything wrong with the first phone call - no one was even talking about it until trump brought it up, in a very transparent attempt to deflect from the disaster that is his second phone call with zelensky.