Quote (Black XistenZ @ 9 Oct 2024 02:42)

Do you not believe in the concept of sovereign nations at all, only in "might makes right"?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 8 2024 02:32pm)

That's a highly misleading framing. First, the West having screwed up in Iraq and Afghanistan doesn't logically imply that it is in the wrong with regard to Ukraine. Second, the West had let Russia get away with annexing Crimea and having its proxy forces take over Donetsk and Luhansk. We only imposed inconsequential, perfunctory sanctions for that. This inaction was a tacit admission by the West that Russia had some point back in 2014, that the situation was murky enough, and that the pro-Russian provinces of Ukraine should probably be allowed to secede if/when the west of the country moves toward the EU/NATO.

The 'unprovoked' claim mostly refers to the situation in 2021 and 2022, when the conflict was at low intensity and the status quo was rather stable. Launching a full-scale invasion in this specific situation, at this specific point in time, was unprovoked/uncalled for.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ 8 Oct 2024 21:42)

Do you not believe in the concept of sovereign nations at all, only in "might makes right"?

Quote (ofthevoid @ 9 Oct 2024 02:50)

In a rule based order, all countries that invade other countries are treated equally. "Screwed up" is a massive understatement. Our interventions were very weakly justified and led to hundreds of thousands of dead and millions displaced. Some of these places still yet to recover, i mean look at Libya, completely destabilized state. We didn't even pretend to try to nation build there. Where are the German sanctions or UN resolutions condemning these wars?

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 8 2024 11:42am)

Do you not believe in the concept of sovereign nations at all, only in "might makes right"?

Quote (El1te @ 9 Oct 2024 02:59)

That phrase is often quoted by communists and has no basis in the material world - in the material word, might by definition does make right by natural law alone. Those in power determine what is right. Unless we're defining "right" here in a spiritual sense in which you are correct. But that's not of this world, that's of the spirit world. So it's a meaningless statement unless you invoke religion

Quote (Hamsterbaby @ Oct 8 2024 12:00pm)

My personal mentor = Elite = :love:

Quote (El1te @ 9 Oct 2024 03:02)

<3

It's actually funny here because the pro-regime pro-Ukrainian people often say "might doesn't make right" but they themselves are guilty of believing that NATO is right because.... it has the might, and it writes the "international law". That's called subjugation by a mighty Empire, follow my law or else. It's comical really how people lack the introspection and humility to see this, it's plainly obvious. So "might doesn't make right" is a criticism of NATO, not Russia - the only hilarious one is "history is written by the victors" okay then apply that to WWII :lol:

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Oct 8 2024 11:38am)

If the US pulls the plug on Ukraine, the war will end with a Russian victory. Ukraine will probably continue fighting desperately, men and women will keep dying, and then they will eventually be forced to accept a dictated peace which amounts to unconditional surrender. Not exactly what I would call a good outcome.

Furthermore, Russia can of course also end this war. All they need to do is stop shelling Ukrainian cities and advancing forward. If Russia sits back where they currently are, this war will quickly end. Ukraine is running on fumes and the population is war-weary, as is the Western public.