Quote (El1te @ Oct 4 2024 09:45pm)

I don't mean to be one sided, but to take a rational unbiased observation of all events possible to determine a truthful conclusion. I recognize some terms in my post here had pro-Russia framing such as violent coup when I should have just said coup again here. And about the alleged attempted 2005 assassination, how many Russians have the Ukrainians assassinated or tried? Without that information, it's a meaningless discussion.

I generally agree with the chronological events as you have described them, but I have issues with your framing as you are guilty here of being one-sided as well. Labelling legitimate & lawful police officers as "secret police" is an unfair framing that attempts to delegitimize them, they were a lawful tactical police force who were enforcing the laws & obeying the lawful government. There are many instances in your post of one-sided framing - violating a campaign promise isn't an act of war and isn't illegal - it's standard practice literally everywhere. He had lawful veto powers, period. Saying it was at the behest of his "overlords" is a clear example of biased illogical framing - you have no proof that he did those actions in service of an overlord. To your bolded sentence, this was under violent coercion. No shit they all voted one way, or else they and their families get the bullet. Events as you have described them accurately explain why democracy failed in this situation: the country was incredibly polarized with relatively equal representation. However, Yanukovych was lawfully elected and the coup was illegal, this is a matter of fact. And he was forced out of the country not via the ballot box, but through violence, where he was coerced. This isn't democracy, it's just the natural law of the human condition. After all, Otto von Bismarck was right, the important questions are not solved via a parliament but in the crucible of war, blood and iron.

However, since the new Ukrainian regime was okay with using violence to get its way instead of through the ballot box, Russia is responding in kind. You logically cannot fault them for that, if one side decides the rules of the game don't matter then you can't fault the other player for responding in kind. And given the right of conquest, Russia has full rights to conquer the land if they have the ability and will to do so. And it is very clear to me that Russia decided to attack in 2022 because of the hilarious botched Afghanistan withdrawal. Blood in the water, then was the time to strike.

All in all to say, the Ukrainian-Russia fight is their fight, not ours. They want to fight the Russian bear, have at it. Many have tried and many have failed, I'm not interested. Russians can be bad guys but the Ukrainian nationalists are literally classical Nazis. But don't expect me to be fine with sending my money there. They are a semi-foreign civilization. The Orthodox church hasn't been in communion with the Western church(s) for a long long time. The only reason to be involved is to maintain an Imperial hegemony, nothing else. Which I would be okay with if we actually had a proper Imperial regime with proper dynastic rule, but we don't, we have a degenerate oligarchy run by gay pedophiles.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 6 Oct 2024 08:43)

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1fx96c7/russian_soldiers_posing_with_a_hezbollah_chevrons/

Russian soldier allegedly wearing a hezbollah patch.

Remember the Russians billed this as a war of denazification, regardless if Russia has equally as many if not more ultranationists than Ukraine.
So when they claim Ukrianians are Nazis just remember it was Putin that propped up Assad and supports Iran in its mission to literally eradicate every Israeli Jew.

The irony is extraordinary. Pathetic liars.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 6 2024 08:43am)

https://www.reddit.com/r/UkraineWarVideoReport/comments/1fx96c7/russian_soldiers_posing_with_a_hezbollah_chevrons/

Russian soldier allegedly wearing a hezbollah patch.

Remember the Russians billed this as a war of denazification, regardless if Russia has equally as many if not more ultranationists than Ukraine.
So when they claim Ukrianians are Nazis just remember it was Putin that propped up Assad and supports Iran in its mission to literally eradicate every Israeli Jew.

The irony is extraordinary. Pathetic liars.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 6 2024 04:15am)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusich_Group

Russian nazis, supporting a genocide of Jews in 2024 and enacting a genocide in Ukraine.

Only bottom feeders would support this regime.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 6 2024 10:50am)

How many members of the Rusich Group are there and how much political power do they hold?
How many members of the Azov Brigade are there and how much political power do they hold?

The best estimates on current strength place the Rusich Group around 30 individuals, unsourced claims list "a few hundred", but their own group details from a few years ago list "several dozen". They hold no political power at all
The Azov Brigade claims it has recruited to reach ~7000 men in the past few years, up from the 250-900 estimated prior to the war. They were intimately involved in the Maidan and the vanguard of the revolution, and occupied both elected government (representing thousands more people) as well as appointed positions and military posts, and indeed represent the single largest and most powerful faction in Ukraine outside of the power structure propped up by the west, making them the challenger apparent to Zelensky & co should the government collapse. And that's already started to play out with power plays and high level staff rearrangement in the top brass.

So if we were comparing the second most powerful group in Ukraine to ~30 mercenaries out of a PMC that listed 85,000 members prior to being axed in 2023, it doesn't seem like much of a comparison. I mean, if we were talking about the Wagner Group at large, they represent at least some political clout in Russia even if Prizoghin (the late elder) proved that they aren't 2nd, 3rd or 4th, certainly not above the various oligarch factions and Federal Council / Duma. Wouldn't be the same but it would be closer.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 6 2024 05:27am)

If there is 1 Rusich member fighting in Ukraine, which undoubtably there is

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Oct 6 2024 05:27am)

Azov are the true Nazis.

Quote (Goomshill @ Oct 6 2024 12:22pm)

If there's 1 neo-nazi in Russia, then what? Nothing. I don't care. I have no reason to care.
There aren't even enough non-undercover-FBI neo-nazis left in America to fill a high school gymnasium, and they certainly don't have any power in government.
In Ukraine the Azov Brigade represents the second biggest political force, and there's a very significant chance that in 5 years from now they will be running west Ukraine. Because that's what happened in the last dozen American interventions where we created a power vacuum, propped up radical groups to fight for us before inevitably abandoning them, and the radicals filled that vacuum.

If the entire Russian army was actually infected with neo-Nazism en masse like the Ukrainian army is, then it still wouldn't change the calculus of self-interested American geopolitical strategy. I still wouldn't care, and I'd still have no reason to care. And yet they aren't, and I still don't care. Because there's no dichotomy, we don't need to pick sides in every conflict around the world, we don't need to choose between the repressive totalitarian regime of Mahamat Deby in Chad nor prop up the socialists he massacres. We aren't shipping weapons to Russia, and we shouldn't be shipping weapons to Ukraine, because its not in either American interests nor any global humanitarian interest, rather its self-defeating on both accounts.




Well you got that part right at least. You know, from the way they pose with swastika flags, tattoo SS and black suns on themselves, film themselves doing heil hitler salutes while riding the vehicles we gave them. The way they unironically handed out translated copies of Mein Kampf and Protocols of the Elders of Zion during the Maidan. Because like I've said so many times on PARD now, real Nazis go so far out of their way to make abso-fucking-lutely sure you know that they are Nazis just to make sure nobody can deny it on some video game internet forum in the future.