Once they figure out how to work pagers without going blind

So for a bit of contrast

Joe Biden, Kamala Harris and the rest of America leading the pro-UA charge have given plenty of speeches about how we're defending democracy.
We denounce the separatist referendums held by the DPR/LPR/Crimea as illegal, illegitimate and rigged, while we laud Zelensky as a champion of democracy as he stays in office indefinitely
That's all normal, we're used to it by now, old hat. Let me bring up a parallel example

Russia has been expanding its influence into the Sahel, with regional governments turning against America and kicking our troops out of Niger, Mali and Burkino Faso, generally with coups backed by Wagner Africa Corps mercenaries or otherwise gaining Russia's support. The US has overtly supported Islamist militants to kill Russians in the Sahel, and this has further provoked backlash from regional governments on top of the anti-imperialist populist sentiment. But Chad is a particular example, as US troops withdrew but we still tried to negotiate a presence and see if they'd bargain for the tug of influence between the west and Russia. Well, Chad's government warmed a bit towards us- lukewarm at best- and after the last election the American government issued a press statement declaring our recognition of their free and fair election;
https://www.state.gov/on-the-election-in-chad/
"the United States commends those who exercised their right to vote on May 5-6. We welcome the peaceful conduct of the voting and its aftermath"

Leading up to the election in Chad this last year, forces loyal to the incumbent and reelected president Mahamat Deby who represents the 34 year ruling dynasty, stormed the headquarters of the socialist opposition party and shot dead their candidate Yaya Dillo, the #1 contender in the election. He was found dead execution style, a single bullet wound to the head. The government passed an amnesty law that granted full immunity for any future murders committed by security forces in the leadup to the election, and this came after his forces gunned down 128 people protesting against how Deby had refused to hold elections and extended his reign arbitrarily. Then in this last election, independent observers reported widespread ballot-stuffing, ballot-snatching, intimidation and murders, with 10+ people gunned down outside the presidential palace. Even the state department couldn't help but note how 'our guy' disqualified 10 opposition candidates with no appeal, wiped 18-21 year olds off the electoral list and barred EU observers from watching vote counting.
But because we want to negotiate with the Deby family, we totally recognize their democracy as legitimate and the president as lawfully elected in accordance with international law and a rules based order

Zelenskyy’s plan has four key points: first, a request for western security guarantees akin to the mutual defence pact of NATO membership; second, to continue Ukraine’s incursion into Russia’s Kursk region to provide a territorial bargaining chip; third, a request for ‘specific’ advanced weapons; and fourth, international financial aid for Ukraine’s shattered economy."
https://www.pravda.com.ua/eng/news/2024/09/23/7476333/

So his plan essentially boils down to scaring Russia out of Ukraine by getting NATO to threaten Russia with direct involvement if they don't back down. Or at the very least stop any further advances.

1. I see absolutely zero appetite among the NATO countries for this kind of involvement/potential escalation.
2. Even if NATO was willing to issue such threats, I see no reason why Russia would just believe them and run away without first escalating things a bit to test our nerves and dedication to the Ukrainian cause.

I don't see this plan going anywhere. In reality, even the current level of Western commitment to this war is faced with eroding public support in countless NATO countries, let alone taking on even more risk and costs.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 23 2024 06:39am

This is strategy of feigning strength when you are weak. Ukraine had the upper hand and should have negotiated during the first 6 months of the war, when Russia's blitz didn't work and they did not have the troops to hold the large swaths of land to the north. Now they just keep up these maximalist asks, even though they aren't in any position to dictate anything.

Also this is about to be a massive drag on the EU, but the rich Euros getting cucked is nothing new. When it's all said and done this project will cost Europe and the US trillions if you factor in the life support Ukraine will need for probably a decade at least after the war.

This entire plan hinges on security guarantees given Western countries. This is not even an attempt at feigning strength, it's an attempt to call in the big brother and have him chase the bully away.

Zelensky has no plan, he is Cocaine Junkie who ruined Ukraine being a puppet to the Corporations.



The Istanbul negotiations was the maximum EVER Ukraine could get. Ofc, Boris Johnson destroyed that, cause for the MIC Peace was never an option. The problem is in the so called "west", we live in a "information bubble" (absurd Narrative that Urkaine is fighting for Freedom & Democracy) and not understanding how all this works.

Before all, it all started as a Civil War. Waste majority of the Anti-Kiev fighters were Ukrainians (even the Leaders & the Heros of the "russian side", like Giwi, Motorolla, Zaharchenko, etc). Russia was "sucked" into the conflict by our crazy "leaders".
Second, there is not one single bullet "help", the Governments are taking our tax Money, and buying the weapons / ammunition from the Corporations.
Third, idiots think that it is about Human Rights, Democracy, Elections If it was about Democracy, why Nuland sponsored the Right Sektor / the Fascist of Ukraine?

So, no idea what spirit is in this topic here, but as someone who lost some friends there, and knows what is going on there Years before "Maidan", i am sick of the people who are spreading the false narrative, and sending hunderts of thousands in certain death.

To understand why is this our, west´s fault, you can check on YT great lecture by Prof. John Mearsheimer: Why is Ukraine the West's Fault? Featuring John Mearsheimer


This post was edited by aRMakedon on Sep 23 2024 08:44am

As has been repeatedly stated, Russia sees itself in an existential threat. The West confirming/validating that threat will not see Russia capitulate but rather fight like a cornered rat. That is, tooth and nail, with everything they have. In the most simplistic terms, Ukraine's/Englands/The West's strategy is brain dead.

False. Russia openly funded and supported separatist in Ukraine before any of what you claim took place.
As has been Putins playbook in countless regions. Russia being innocently "sucked" into a war is completely absurd.

Mearsheimer is a hack and a sensationalist liar, disproven by rebuttals from countless experts; See Steven Kotkins disassembly of Mearsheimer's nonsense theory.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Sep 23 2024 08:50am

Ok, So you celebrate Fascist, SS, killing of innocent, Holocaust, etc, right?

And dont say it is false, it is not me who is taking pictures with Fascist & Nazi Iconography, and it is not me or Russia who celebrates SS Criminals in the Parliament.

Btw, Russia signed several threaties where the Donbas Region and the other Regions were part of Ukraine. It is the fascist supporters who dont want peace, so they will get what they want

Angela Merkel & other ppl from the Minsk agreements openly spoke about that.

So, let me count:

You support War, Fascist, Nazi SS Criminals, you are a liar, sprreading lies.