d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > European Union News > What's Up In The Eu.
Prev1442443444445446717Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 2,295
Joined: Oct 3 2010
Gold: 4,311.90
Nov 5 2019 02:09pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 5 2019 01:35pm)


Stop spreading hysteria

Quote
Despite the gang attacks, Sweden’s murder rate has fallen since the 1990s and remains among the world’s lowest, with killings linked to domestic violence, hate crime and “spontaneous fights” all significantly down.
Member
Posts: 92,996
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Nov 5 2019 02:13pm
Quote (WiziLiCe @ Nov 5 2019 03:09pm)
Stop spreading hysteria


interesting. when we have a shooting (or even just generally high shooting rates for a 1st world country) in the USA and i say "guys, violence overall is declining. especially shootings", i'm a deflecting asshat who's not respecting a tragedy. at least that's what the liberals tell me.

in all seriousness tho, wouldn't a spike in violent crime in the most safe country actually be MORE relevant?

i mean if you get a breakout of drug deaths in some inner city school no one really notices, if it happens at a $$$$ private school it's surprising.
Member
Posts: 2,295
Joined: Oct 3 2010
Gold: 4,311.90
Nov 5 2019 03:23pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Nov 5 2019 02:13pm)
interesting. when we have a shooting (or even just generally high shooting rates for a 1st world country) in the USA and i say "guys, violence overall is declining. especially shootings", i'm a deflecting asshat who's not respecting a tragedy. at least that's what the liberals tell me.

in all seriousness tho, wouldn't a spike in violent crime in the most safe country actually be MORE relevant?

i mean if you get a breakout of drug deaths in some inner city school no one really notices, if it happens at a $$$$ private school it's surprising.


Read the headline, fatalities, etc, confirm predosposed bias and carry on. Conclusions drawn by extremists and hacks with political agendas are the real issue. The previous interaction just facilitates the means of the extremists and hacks. Stories like these tend to satiate that appetite. My case is not to dive into ignorance. Let's respect the tragedy. But the subtle difference is to deem both facts as valuable (violence overall is decreasing, the tragedy is devastating for all involved). You dont get the full picture disregarding one or the other.

I don't think you are ill intended (apologies if that is the message that was transmitted). In my experience mentioning incidents like this provokes a palette of responses ranging from "hysteria/nothing to see here" to "cherry picking".
Member
Posts: 92,996
Joined: Dec 31 2007
Gold: 2,299.94
Nov 5 2019 03:33pm
Quote (WiziLiCe @ Nov 5 2019 04:23pm)
Read the headline, fatalities, etc, confirm predosposed bias and carry on. Conclusions drawn by extremists and hacks with political agendas are the real issue. The previous interaction just facilitates the means of the extremists and hacks. Stories like these tend to satiate that appetite. My case is not to dive into ignorance. Let's respect the tragedy. But the subtle difference is to deem both facts as valuable (violence overall is decreasing, the tragedy is devastating for all involved). You dont get the full picture disregarding one or the other.

I don't think you are ill intended (apologies if that is the message that was transmitted). In my experience mentioning incidents like this provokes a palette of responses ranging from "hysteria/nothing to see here" to "cherry picking".


100% agree. the thing that stood out to me is the lack of fatalities in these bombings. they're being done on empty buildings and they believe it's to intimidate rival gangs.

it's a funny contrast from the USA where if you want to intimidate a rival gang you drive by their house and 6 dudes all unload multiple clips into their house killing innocents inside, kids, elderly, etc.

whereas in sweeden they're basically attacking empty buildings to posture.

i think this uptick in violence in the most safe place in the world is interesting, not a cause for alarmism, but interesting.

edit: no apology needed either :) i got what u meant

This post was edited by thesnipa on Nov 5 2019 03:35pm
Member
Posts: 54,175
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Nov 5 2019 04:25pm
Quote (WiziLiCe @ 5 Nov 2019 22:23)
Read the headline, fatalities, etc, confirm predosposed bias and carry on. Conclusions drawn by extremists and hacks with political agendas are the real issue. The previous interaction just facilitates the means of the extremists and hacks. Stories like these tend to satiate that appetite. My case is not to dive into ignorance. Let's respect the tragedy. But the subtle difference is to deem both facts as valuable (violence overall is decreasing, the tragedy is devastating for all involved). You dont get the full picture disregarding one or the other.

I don't think you are ill intended (apologies if that is the message that was transmitted). In my experience mentioning incidents like this provokes a palette of responses ranging from "hysteria/nothing to see here" to "cherry picking".


I would understand this point if it had been an article on Breitbart or infowars. But it was a story in the Guardian, a decidedly left-liberal leaning newpaper.



One thing to keep in mind with those "overall rates of violent crime declined"-stats is that all western societies are rapidly aging, Sweden is no exception to that rule. Everywhere in the world, young people, and young males in particular, are responsible for the overwhelming majority of violent crime. As a population ages, violent crime numbers therefore have to be expected to go down even if the propensity for violent crime among all age groups remained constant.

Therefore, it is easily possible for this larger, nationwide demographic trend which is depressing crime rates to offset and mask a local uptick in crime in certain inner-city areas or among small but ultraviolent immigrant gangs. (As is the case in Sweden, their gang problem is not homegrown, it is an imported one!)

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 5 2019 04:26pm
Member
Posts: 14,099
Joined: Jul 13 2006
Gold: 83.30
Nov 6 2019 03:29pm
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/06/amsterdam-schiphol-airport-evacuated-situation-onboard-plane

Air Europe pilot accidentally pressed the hijacking button.

Situation was fully escalated to GRIP-3 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Regional_Incident_Management_(Netherlands) ), meaning that Anti-terror squad, two air ambulances and tons of police were hauling ass to Schiphol. Lots of flights cancelled or delayed.

I wonder how that pilot feels lmao.
Member
Posts: 54,175
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,945.67
Nov 6 2019 05:00pm
Quote (balrog66 @ 6 Nov 2019 22:29)
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/nov/06/amsterdam-schiphol-airport-evacuated-situation-onboard-plane

Air Europe pilot accidentally pressed the hijacking button.

Situation was fully escalated to GRIP-3 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Regional_Incident_Management_(Netherlands) ), meaning that Anti-terror squad, two air ambulances and tons of police were hauling ass to Schiphol. Lots of flights cancelled or delayed.

I wonder how that pilot feels lmao.


Uhoh... I have a feeling the next button this pilot will be pressing is the "cow"-symbol on the McDonalds register...
Member
Posts: 14,099
Joined: Jul 13 2006
Gold: 83.30
Nov 7 2019 07:09am
https://www.thestar.com/news/world/europe/2019/11/07/auschwitz-survivor-becomes-symbol-of-tensions-in-italy.html

Quote
Auschwitz survivor a symbol of Italy’s anti-Semitic tensions
By Colleen BarryThe Associated Press
Thu., Nov. 7, 2019timer3 min. read

MILAN - An 89-year-old Auschwitz survivor who is a senator-for-life in Italy has unwittingly provoked one of the country’s most intense confrontations with anti-Semitism since the end of Italy’s Fascist dictatorship during World War II.

In response to revelations that she is subject to 200 social media attacks each day, Liliana Segre called for the creation of a parliamentary committee to combat hate, racism and anti-Semitism. Parliament approved her motion — but without votes from Italy’s right-wing parties.

Matteo Salvini’s euroskeptic League party, Silvio Berlusconi’s centre-right Forza Italia and Giorgia Meloni’s far-right Brothers of Italy all abstained, in a move that defied the social consensus that has marked Italian post-war politics.

The vote last week, along with a round of racist chants in a soccer stadium, has focused attention on a growing boldness in anti-Semitic and racist attitudes in Italy, and the role of politicians in sanctioning them.

On Thursday, Italian state radio said Milan’s prefect, who reports to the interior minister, has assigned a Carabinieri paramilitary police security detail to Segre because of the threats against her.

Meloni said she abstained because the commission didn’t address the role of Islamic extremism in anti-Semitism. Salvini said he was worried the motion would introduce limits on freedom of expression and that “the left would pass off for racism what for us is the belief or the right to say ‘Italians first.’” In a similar vein, Forza Italia called the commission an attempt at “political censure.”

Riccardo Pacifici, the former leader of Rome’s Jewish community and a member of the Shoah Foundation of Rome, said the reasons given for the abstentions could be taken at face value.

“But if we should discover that the real reason for which they didn’t vote was because they feared losing the consensus of the extreme right, I believe that Jews will have a problem also in Italy,” Pacifici said.


Bolded is the reason why I'm nowhere near as afraid of Geert Wilders' PVV as I am of Thierry Baudet and his FvD.
Member
Posts: 28,849
Joined: Mar 8 2010
Gold: 2,570.91
Nov 10 2019 09:27am
Spanish parliamentary and senate elections today. A repeat of the April elections after president Pedro Sánchez failed to form government due to the hung parliament.

I know I said I'd post info on this, but I've just been really, really busy. Even considering that for some years now my posting activity has dropped, I don't recall many occasions where I've gone 3 weeks straight without a single post in any jsp sub forum :D

Anyway, the media was expecting a very low turnout today, but so far it seems like an average voting occasion. 3% less turnout at noon when compared to the previous election from a few months ago... but that one had an exceptionally high turnout, so this one is so far on par with other general elections (like 2011 or 2015).

Most polls predict that not much is going to change... another hung parliament is expected, and this time it might be even more chaotic that in April. The difference is that centre-right wing parties C's and PP have said they are potentially open to the idea of letting Sánchez form a government in order to prevent yet another repeat... and then follow it up with a hard parliamentary opposition as soon as the term starts (forcing Sánchez to try to negotiate each bill separately with other parties).

The media expects these results:

Centre-left PSOE: Similar or slightly worse results. Pedro Sánchez's strategy of going for an electoral repeat in order to increase its parliamentary power won't work according to the most recent polls.
Centre-right conservative PP: Significantly better results, but still far away from PSOE. It's gaining a lot of voters from C's and making a strong campaign centered around the idea of a utility vote for liberalism and unionism. The party has a adopted a much more centrist approach than in April, and has given significant roles to several of the most prominent moderate former ministers during the Rajoy government.
Centre-right progressive C's: Terrible results are expected. They could get under 10% of the votes and 15 or so seats. Their centrist voter base isn't forgiving it's candidate's (Rivera) strategy of veto-ing Sánchez and ruling out the possibility of a centrist PSOE-C's government, despite that being a viable option that added up to a majority and could have prevented this electoral repeat.
Alt-right conservative VOX:A very significant increase. As a more centrist PP devours C's, VOX feeds on PP's right flank. Also, the party's strong stance against the "too soft" sentence for the separatist politicians that unilaterally declared Catalonia's failed independence has attracted many hard unionists from all sides of the political spectrum. The party's candidate, Abascal, has had strong debates and has shifted the focus on national unionism and patriotism rather than catholic conservatism.
Alt-left UP: Similar results. The party seems to have reached it's lowest point in April and probably won't sink further.
Left-wing green party MP: Very weak results. Many polls were expecting this party, which broke away from UP, to get around 15 seats, but now most polls predict something like 3-5 seats. It seems like it's stealing votes from PSOE rather than UP.
Regionalist parties: Similar or slightly stronger results over all for all of the parties. In Catalonia, the radical anti-capitalist separatist party CUP is running for the first time (until now, they didn't contest national elections because they don't recognize Spain's sovereignty in Catalonia... but they've changed their policy this time) and they could steal a couple of seats from other catalan parties. Also, in the small rural province of Teruel, a protest party (Teruel Existe - Teruel Exists) could enter parliament after a strong campaign centered around protesting about how rich areas of Spain like Madrid, Catalonia or the Basque regions get all sort of services with the country's deep rural areas are forgotten.

Significant events that occurred during the campaign and could impact the results:

1. Violent protests in Catalonia after the sentencing of the separatist politicians that declared the independence of Catalonia. These were pretty rough for about a week, but have died down as soon as the weather became colder and started raining a bit.
2. The exhumation of fascist dictatorship Francisco Franco from the Civil War memorial where he was buried, and his new burial in the graveyard where his wife lays (which was actually his dying wish). Most people and parties are happy with this, but there has been a lot of criticism towards Sánchez for carrying this out during the campaign. Beyond that, alt-left UP criticises this as a "cosmetic move" because according to them "PSOE moves Franco's mummy, but leaves his true remains in the nation's institutions and political and economic culture". Centre-right progressive C's and left-green MP approve, but criticize the timing. Centre-right conservative PP criticizes that the exhumation stirs up old debates that do more harm than good, and that Sánchez is willing to risk creating social tension just for a handful of votes. Meanwhile alt-right VOX has been highly critical of the whole thing, as they consider it a sickening and illegal desecration of spanish citizen's grave with the only purpose of rewriting history according to the "leftist agenda".
3. The economic predictors being negative, as a new world-wide financial crisis threatens the country.

Over all, there could be a lot of protest votes as people are fed up with the political class and are angry over the electoral repeat. This is why the most centrist parties will likely get worse results, while the extremes will rise.

Poll of polls:









Results from the april elections:



This post was edited by zarkadon on Nov 10 2019 09:31am
Member
Posts: 28,849
Joined: Mar 8 2010
Gold: 2,570.91
Nov 10 2019 01:11pm


Exit poll. No big surprises; very hung parliament. Let's wait for the official results now...
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1442443444445446717Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll