I agree, and this is why I want to believe a repeat isn't going to happen, but our political leaders are very stubborn and irresponsible, so we can't rule that possibility out.

A very weak monochromatic PSOE government with PP null-voting the election of Sánchez is also a possibility, but then again the pressure on the right side from a growing VOX complicates this possibility.

Interesting Italian sociological study on Europe's youth by SWG:

Adults born since the 90s from 6 European countries: Austria, Germany, France, Italy, Spain and Poland.

How should change be brought to your country: Reform or Revolution? (or neither work, or "don't know").



All of the country's youths prefer reform, but in France there seems to be a pretty big support for revolution. Perhaps it's in their blood ^^

Sometimes it's more desirable to have a totalitarian government than a democratic one - Do you agree or disagree? (orange is agree, dark grey is disagree, light grey is "don't know")



Surprised so many people in France or Germany would think this way tbh. I would agree to the idea that some non-European countries aren't ready for democracy and would function better under a dictatorship that transitions them to democracy, but idk if that's what the people saying they agree with the question's statement really mean.

Nationals should be prioritized over foreigners - Do you agree or disagree? (orange is totally agree, dark grey is totally disagree, light grey is "don't know")



Hmmm, seems like the Spanish youth is alone in this regard. In all of the other countries, they put their nationals ahead of immigrants. Unsurprisingly, Poland leads in this regard... but it's followed closely by France and Austria.

What should be done in regards to immigration to Europe - distribute the migrants among all member states, strengthen borders and expel the migrants immediately, neither or "don't know"?



Well, I'm not surprised that Poland's youth are the ones that lean the most towards expelling and Spain's youth the ones that lean more towards quotas, but it's interesting how much of a divisive topic this is in Germany, Austria and France.


Should Europe's economic system be capitalist, something completely different or a mix?



All of the countries prefer a mixed system, except France's youth, which seems to lean slightly more towards an alternative system. Poland seems to be the only country where it's youth value capitalism somewhat significantly (31%).


Your take on all of this?

This post was edited by zarkadon on Nov 21 2019 05:26pm

Interesting stats. Some random thoughts:

- regarding reform vs revolution: I think it depends a lot on the historical experience with reforms and revolution within the various countries. France and Germany have experienced reforms which were quite bad for ordinary people in recent years, so support for this approach is muted. Austria, Italy, Germany and Spain have made some very bad experiences with political revolutions, so people in these countries are more against it than the youth of countries with successful revolutions (France, Poland).


- regarding the "nationals should be preferred over foreigners" question: Spain is really the outlier in this regard. Is it perhaps because you have very limited social security compared with the other countries, so that treating citizens and foreigners equally amounts to less of a "devaluation of citizenship/destruction of privileges"?



well, germany, austria and france are the major destination of the non-EU migrants arriving in Europe. they bear the brunt of the burden in the long run, so they imho are more outspoken in their rejection of this type of migration. a larger share of their population wants to reduce the burden that has to be shouldered versus insisting on a quota solution which has already proven to be politically infeasible. that Spain and Italy, the countries of first arrival, prefer a quota solution doesnt surprise me.



Not surprising. Poland is one of the few countries in the Western world where a significant chunk of the population has seen a big jump in their economic situation/standard of living thanks to capitalism/hard work in recent years. Elsewhere, the young generation tends to be more sceptical of capitalism, probably due to the experience with high youth unemployment, student loan debt, paltry wages for entry-level jobs, untenable rent in big cities with job opportunities, and of course the big "innocence lost"-experience during the great recession of 2009.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Nov 21 2019 05:56pm

i'm pretty sure you're forgetting something rather important there, which is the "hard work" of people in other countries that improved polands situation so significantly.
they have been the biggest recipient of EU funds for years - and by quite a margin.

yet you see them at the very top of 'nationals should be prioritised over foreigners' and strongly opposing a fair distribution of migrants. what a lovely, welcoming, and totally not selfish bunch they are...

This post was edited by fender on Nov 22 2019 03:59am

these funds mostly go to the agricultural sector and into Poland's deprived regions. EU funding is helping Poland a ton, but I dont think it explains why their youth is so positive about capitalism.

ummm... you are aware that those funds have a very concrete impact not only on the 'agricultural sector', right? they obviously free up federal budget for other projects.
i'm not saying this alone explains it, i'm just pointing out that their 'big jump' had more reasons than just 'capitalism' (for the record, young adults born 1990 and after, which were polled in this survey, exclusively grew up in a capitalist society) - that, as a matter of fact, some heavy duty 'socialism' played a significant role there.

i don't know if you read the second part of my post, but it was also a comment about the generally selfish and isolationist (reminds me of the UK tbh) attitude that poland has been displaying, as illustrated in some of their replies in the polls zark linked. they welcome 'foreign' money, but reject 'foreign' people...

This post was edited by fender on Nov 22 2019 04:27am

A lot of it has to do with young Polish people studying and working abroad. They were the first Eastern European country whose youth took full advantage of the freedom of movement in the EU. A ton of them are professionals or craftsmen working in Germany, the UK, etc. and earning good money there, particularly when compared to the situation in Poland. Hence, a higher share of Poland's youth has first hand experience with "getting 'rich' through work and capitalism" than the youth in other European countries. That Poland itself sees quite high rates of economic growth has to do with EU funding, yes, but also with them implementing very pro-growth, free market policies in the early 2000s, and with them being in the middle of the "demographic dividend" phase where relatively few kids and elderly have to be provided for by relatively many working-age persons.

Regarding the pro-growth, free market policies of the 2000s: those left a high share of the Polish population behind - and these 'losers' of those policies formed the voters base of the PiS party. Now that the PiS has increased government spending on child benefits and pensions, they are in the sweet spot: strong economic growth, smart young people having decent opportunities in nearby neighboring countries and more decent social security to reward families and help those who cant keep up with the capitalist economy.





They do NOT reject foreign people in general! They took in hundreds of thousands of Ukrainian migrants in recent years, to name just one example. What the Polish do reject is African and Arab poverty migration. And I cant blame them for that.

In general, is it really such a weird concept when a country's government welcomes things that are positive for its people, and tries to keep out negative influences? For a self-loathing German leftist, the answer apparently is 'yes'.

just rephrasing the actual issue in order to rationalise certain behaviour seems to be the far-right's go to move these days, but it doesn't make for an intellectually honest or convincing argument.

the problem with polands stance is not that they merely 'welcome things that are positive for their people' - i've got news for you: everyone does that, and that's completely ok - the problem is that they benefit like no other country from the EU, yet opt out of every single responsibility they can.

dishonestly suggesting that all migration from africa and the middle east is merely 'poverty migration' also doesn't help - especially given polands own recent history of 'poverty migration' into the west, which just adds to the hypocrisy.

just because you share their bigotry against brown people, doesn't mean that everyone with a more nuanced take on those issues is a 'self-loathing leftist', what a completely moronic remark really...

The poll is not perfect, "Reforms", "Revolution", "Totalitarian", even "Immigration" words do not have the same weight in-between countries/cultures IMO. Usage and recent history playing around.
It's still a good indicator. I love Poland demographics (average age and population amount evolution).