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Sep 11 2020 09:41am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 11 2020 10:31am)
Didn't watch the debates


so "ive never heard" should be "ive never listened".

the mainstream democrats, not just loonies, all talked about reparations. its no longer a fringe topic. Charlamagne Tha God asks literally every dem candidate about it on Breakfast Club.
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Sep 11 2020 10:12am
Quote (thesnipa @ 11 Sep 2020 11:41)
so "ive never heard" should be "ive never listened".

the mainstream democrats, not just loonies, all talked about reparations. its no longer a fringe topic. Charlamagne Tha God asks literally every dem candidate about it on Breakfast Club.

lol he got intellectually shredded there again huh. flat earther of all people permanently bamboozled thor
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Sep 11 2020 10:45am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 11 2020 10:30am)
I've literally never heard of a liberal talk about reparations.

You need to hear more liberals.

Defund the police is suppirted by plenty of police chiefs and organizations because they dont want to have to respond to situations they aren't prepared for, and this goes all the way back to the 80s.

The vast majority of police organizations have endorsed the Republican ticket specifically because of how off the wall ridiculous the conversation has gotten.

Abolish ICE doesnt mean abolish border enforcement. Weve had this conversation with XistenZ already

ICE is under the cross-hairs for enforcing border law in a manner entirely consistent with how it was enforced under Obama. There's simply no way around it, the Democratic party has become unhinged on this issue.



Bold
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Sep 11 2020 11:06am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 11 2020 10:41am)
so "ive never heard" should be "ive never listened".

the mainstream democrats, not just loonies, all talked about reparations. its no longer a fringe topic. Charlamagne Tha God asks literally every dem candidate about it on Breakfast Club.


Admittedly, I haven't followed this race as closely as I followed the past 2 presidential races. The difference has been so stark that there hasn't been much of a point for me to do so.

Still, though, Democrats as a party are still largely just status quo managers. We aren't gonna get reparations, we aren't gonna get border abolishment, etc. etc. Best we might get from his list is border security reorganization on the federal level, and funding of alternative services that handle things police shouldn't be handling, which are both pretty good IMO, but not exactly radical.

Just comes down to what I always say. Ask for 50, come down to 30. That's just how you get change.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Sep 11 2020 11:08am
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Sep 11 2020 11:17am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 11 2020 12:06pm)
Admittedly, I haven't followed this race as closely as I followed the past 2 presidential races. The difference has been so stark that there hasn't been much of a point for me to do so.

Still, though, Democrats as a party are still largely just status quo managers. We aren't gonna get reparations, we aren't gonna get border abolishment, etc. etc. Best we might get from his list is border security reorganization on the federal level, and funding of alternative services that handle things police shouldn't be handling, which are both pretty good IMO, but not exactly radical.

Just comes down to what I always say. Ask for 50, come down to 30. That's just how you get change.


yes and no.

at least on the topic of reparations its was 12 progressives and 1 status Joe.

it depends on the topic, in healthcare it was about split, say 6-7. 6 for medicare for all or similar, 7 for medicare for some expansion.

on police reform its 13-0, border security it was mostly pandering knowing they'd all do about what trump is doing but with less ICE funding and no wall and a few whackos.

but on the topic of reparations specifically, it was everyone saying they supported it in some sense, Yang saying UBI is better, and Joe non committal while name dropping Obama.

there are certainly topics where the left is moving more progressively faster, and if it continues to be 12-1 things a few will eek through the status quo.
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Sep 11 2020 11:32am
Quote (bogie160 @ Sep 11 2020 04:21am)
Defund the police. Reparations. Abolish ICE / Border enforcement is racist.

You can quibble on whether or not this is "all" Democrats, but these are positions that have been staked out and supported by major figures / leaders within the party.


That's not main stream. You need to stop listening to fool asses like AOC who have as much power as Justin Amash.

Defund the Police isn't popular with...anyone. This is why the leaders of the Democratic party are very much against it. I know that you WANT it to be the case that Democrats support defunding the police but that doesn't match with reality.

I agree that Democrats have moved to the left, significantly, on border enforcement. However, once Trump is out of office, they'll probably be forced to move back to the center because Americans WANT border enforcement. They just don't want it done in a cruel way. While a slight plurality of Democrats (voters) supported abolishing ICE in 2018, that's no longer the case because it's no longer a pressing issue from their POV. Regardless, I was rebutting to "insane, unpopular policies in response to Trump" so I will give you this one.

Also, lol @ reparations. That's not popular with anyone either.
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Sep 11 2020 12:29pm
Quote (thundercock @ Sep 11 2020 12:32pm)
That's not main stream. You need to stop listening to fool asses like AOC who have as much power as Justin Amash.

Defund the Police isn't popular with...anyone. This is why the leaders of the Democratic party are very much against it. I know that you WANT it to be the case that Democrats support defunding the police but that doesn't match with reality.

I agree that Democrats have moved to the left, significantly, on border enforcement. However, once Trump is out of office, they'll probably be forced to move back to the center because Americans WANT border enforcement. They just don't want it done in a cruel way. While a slight plurality of Democrats (voters) supported abolishing ICE in 2018, that's no longer the case because it's no longer a pressing issue from their POV. Regardless, I was rebutting to "insane, unpopular policies in response to Trump" so I will give you this one.

Also, lol @ reparations. That's not popular with anyone either.


it is tho
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Sep 11 2020 12:34pm
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 11 2020 01:29pm)
it is tho


I mean, you just said that the only guy who didn't support it on stage is the current candidate.

I also just don't take things said on the campaign trail or in debates very seriously. Democrats always try to seem more progressive than they really are, with a few exceptions.
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Sep 11 2020 12:45pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 11 2020 01:34pm)
I mean, you just said that the only guy who didn't support it on stage is the current candidate.

I also just don't take things said on the campaign trail or in debates very seriously. Democrats always try to seem more progressive than they really are, with a few exceptions.


"that's not population with anyone" + "I've literally never heard of a liberal talk about reparations." =/= "a majority dont support it"

nor do "I've literally never heard of a liberal talk about reparations." and "I also just don't take things said on the campaign trail or in debates very seriously" jive.

it is an issue which is gaining traction, it is not a center left popular issue. neither was gay marriage 10 years before it was career suicide to be against.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Sep 11 2020 12:45pm
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Sep 13 2020 10:23am
https://www.thedailybeast.com/rudy-and-his-ukraine-ally-sprint-away-from-their-russian-agent-pal

A Ukrainian that Giuliani was working with in order to dig up dirt on Biden has been sanctioned by the US Treasury for being a Russian agent.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/11/us/politics/nora-dannehy-durham-russia-investigation.html

Top aide to Durham resigned from DOJ, according to some sources it was because of political pressure Barr is putting on the investigation. Apparently there's talk of putting out an interim report on the investigation before the election.


So we have Trump's personal lawyer openly working with a Russian agent to influence the election(sound familiar?) and his AG pressuring a US attorney to shape his investigative schedule so that Barr can release a politically motivated report.

And we have an entire political party and 40% of the country that is totally fine with all of this.
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