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Sep 10 2020 03:22pm
Quote (thundercock @ 10 Sep 2020 21:49)
I think Bernie got close in 2020 but he wasn't close at all in 2016. Bernie failed because he didn't do some very basic stuff in terms of coalition building. But yea, there's been something brewing ever since the financial crisis and we definitely had a mild eruption in 2015. I think if the Democrats control the suburbs, it's game over for the radicals all together. They can be safely ignored.


I think that's really the key question in American politics going forward: how much of the "Trump realignment", which saw Republicans make big inroads with working-class whites and Democrats make big inroads in the suburbs, will persist after he's gone from office? Were the suburbs really trending toward Democrats during the Trump era because suburban voters like the policies and broader ideology the Democrats have adopted in recent years, or was it just anti-Trump backlash? I dont think it's a foregone conclusion at all that Democrats will control the suburbs in the future.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 10 2020 03:23pm
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Sep 10 2020 03:32pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 10 2020 02:22pm)
I think that's really the key question in American politics going forward: how much of the "Trump realignment", which saw Republicans make big inroads with working-class whites and Democrats make big inroads in the suburbs, will persist after he's gone from office? Were the suburbs really trending toward Democrats during the Trump era because suburban voters like the policies and broader ideology the Democrats have adopted in recent years, or was it just anti-Trump backlash? I dont think it's a foregone conclusion at all that Democrats will control the suburbs in the future.


It's definitely not a foregone conclusion and Democrats will have to actively continue to court them. That's more important than appeasing progressives who thrive on anti-intellectualism. White working-class folks are getting smaller and smaller but they are a powerful voting bloc and will continue to be for a while unless we get proportional EVs like Nebraska and Maine have.
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Sep 10 2020 03:47pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 10 2020 05:22pm)
I think that's really the key question in American politics going forward: how much of the "Trump realignment", which saw Republicans make big inroads with working-class whites and Democrats make big inroads in the suburbs, will persist after he's gone from office? Were the suburbs really trending toward Democrats during the Trump era because suburban voters like the policies and broader ideology the Democrats have adopted in recent years, or was it just anti-Trump backlash? I dont think it's a foregone conclusion at all that Democrats will control the suburbs in the future.


Suburban whites have more in common with Democrats these days.

These are the Karens that put annoying ass fucking signs in their front yard like "hate has no home here"

Meanwhile they bus all of their children to 100% white schools
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Sep 10 2020 04:14pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ 10 Sep 2020 17:47)
Suburban whites have more in common with Democrats these days.

These are the Karens that put annoying ass fucking signs in their front yard like "hate has no home here"

Meanwhile they bus all of their children to 100% white schools


bus lol if you mean driving a fleet of gas guzzling range rovers with eco boost sure
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Sep 10 2020 05:50pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 10 2020 02:28pm)
Trump caused liberals, the mainstream media and the Democratic party to lose their mind, expose themselves and adopt insane, unpopular policies which will destroy them once Trump is gone and the general disdain for him doesnt keep centrist voters in their column anymore.

He has also exposed the corruption and spinelessness of the Republican party, and contributed to destroying them from within. Furthermore, he has spurred a purge of the shitty Bush-style neocons from the party, and he has spurred a realignment away from religiously motivated social conservatism toward a populism-fueled cultural conservatism. He almost single-handedly buried fiscal conservatism and forced the GOP to move more toward the center on economic policy.

He has pushed back the creeping takeover of the federal judiciary by liberal activist judges and radically cut down on the bloated federal bureaucracy Obama had created. He stopped attempts at reducing the wiggle room of national politics via international "soft law".

He has widened the overton window to the right on issues like immigration, national identity, free trade and China. Indirectly, his unpopularity has also helped voices on the left to successfully expand the overton window in the other direction. Taken together, this will vitalize American politics and the public discourse in the long run.

All in all, Trump has caused a lot of realignments that I, personally, find great. The long-term changes induced by him are great in their own right, and even better when compared to the horrendous alternatives of a Jeb Bush or Hilary Clinton presidency. His ineptitude at running the day-to-day business of an administration dont change this. I never cared too much about that stuff tbh. But maybe that's my privilege as a foreign voyeur who isnt directly affected by Trump's blunders in day-to-day business.


I don't think that's true, but let's assume it is... why is that a good thing? Why is the MSM and left-of-center political party losing their minds a good thing for America? I understand it might make you feel good... but how is it supposed to help the country? Trumpists seem to equate liberal tears with progress... to me it seems like a very immature way of looking at the situation.

He's definitely exposed how pathetic the Republican party is... but what's pathetic about them is how it has turned into a cult of personality around Trump. The people who actually hold him accountable in the Republican party are the ones you and the cult hate most. Also, Trump has elevated the hawkish wing of the party. He made Bolton NSA. He made Haley UN ambassador. There's plenty of Republicans left who are hawks... Haley, Rubio, Graham. They are fine to Republican voters if they bow down to the cult leader.

So, how exactly is that an improvement? It's not like he's spurred some Reagan type revolution in favor of populist-right policies. He's made those policies more palatable, but the hold he has on the party is because of his cult of personality. And a decent chunk of his support is due to his social conservatism. Sure, he'll pander to gay people in a video at the RNC, but the policy of his administration is socially conservative.

I think Trump's presidency is a missed opportunity for populists. He had a chance to actually be a populist... to withdraw from military conflicts, to pursue populist tax policy, to get an infrastructure bill done, to make consistent arguments that moved voters permanently away from establishment Republican views. But he's governed much like any Republican president would, apart from the trade war, the corruption, and the tweets.

This post was edited by IceMage on Sep 10 2020 05:55pm
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Sep 11 2020 05:21am
Quote (thundercock @ Sep 10 2020 03:25pm)
1) What insane, unpopular policies have liberals as a whole adopted in response to Trump? I feel like the insane left has always existed regardless of Trump but maybe that's just me. I don't think they have or ever will have any real political power.
2) Yes, he absolutely exposed the corruption and spinelessness of the GOP. But the GOP has always been spineless compared to the Dems because they allowed the Tea Party to cuck them. Say what you want about Pelosi, but she keeps the Democrats in line. Boehner, Ryan, and McCarthy are too weak. McConnell runs a pretty tight ship though so I'll give him credit. I think social conservatism and populist conservatism are actually the same thing. They are culture warriors who don't really care about government policy. Similar to Bernie supporters, they like very simple, often contradictory, ideas. Fiscal conservatism is certainly dead but I think that's just a bludgeon used for opposing the majority. I don't think there are many Republicans who actually believe in it. I'm not convinced that neoconservatism is dead. Jingoism is part of the culture war and I think neoconservatism is the manifestation of competent people running an aggressive foreign policy.
3) For the most part, I like Trump's judges. There have been a handful of truly incompetent, dreadful judges but overall he gets a solid A- from me. I don't think Obama had a bloated federal bureaucracy either. If anything, our government is severely underfunded in a lot of areas. There's fat people, fit people, and emaciated people. I'd argue that a lot of critical areas are emaciated which is a big problem.
4) He's definitely widened the Overton window but I don't think that's a good thing. I think that's acceptable in systems that support multiparty representation but we don't have that at all. Our coalitions are formed during the primaries and it leads to a lot of ill will and gridlock.
5) I don't think Trump is necessarily the cause of realignments but he definitely exposed some very interesting elements that I'd argue were already there. I don't think the changes are good at all in the long run. American diplomacy is going to take decades to repair, faith in our institutions are at an all time low, and the people are polarized more than ever. MAYBE that will force us to do the right thing but it could also end this country and put us at a competitive disadvantage. I'm pretty risk averse so this level of uncertainty is pretty unnerving. We'll see what the world looks like in half a century.


Defund the police. Reparations. Abolish ICE / Border enforcement is racist.

You can quibble on whether or not this is "all" Democrats, but these are positions that have been staked out and supported by major figures / leaders within the party.
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Sep 11 2020 08:30am
Quote (bogie160 @ Sep 11 2020 06:21am)
Defund the police. Reparations. Abolish ICE / Border enforcement is racist.

You can quibble on whether or not this is "all" Democrats, but these are positions that have been staked out and supported by major figures / leaders within the party.


I've literally never heard of a liberal talk about reparations.
Defund the police is suppirted by plenty of police chiefs and organizations because they dont want to have to respond to situations they aren't prepared for, and this goes all the way back to the 80s.
Abolish ICE doesnt mean abolish border enforcement. Weve had this conversation with XistenZ already

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Sep 11 2020 08:42am
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 11 2020 09:30am)
I've literally never heard of a liberal talk about reparations.
Defund the police is suppirted by plenty of police chiefs and organizations because they dont want to have to respond to situations they aren't prepared for, and this goes all the way back to the 80s.
Abolish ICE doesnt mean abolish border enforcement. Weve had this conversation with XistenZ already


they literally offered reparations plans on the debate stage. wut.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWpfrxOuVSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dztdTWMoos
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Sep 11 2020 09:14am
Quote (thesnipa @ 11 Sep 2020 16:42)


50 billions for whole slavery and smashed black class for centuries vs the what ... 600+ ? given each year for defense ?
No comment.

This post was edited by Saucisson6000 on Sep 11 2020 09:32am
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Sep 11 2020 09:31am
Quote (thesnipa @ Sep 11 2020 09:42am)
they literally offered reparations plans on the debate stage. wut.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4gTCNutItfk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWpfrxOuVSo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3dztdTWMoos


Didn't watch the debates
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