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Sep 9 2020 05:25pm
Quote (thundercock @ Sep 9 2020 06:15pm)
It really is bizarre. I can't imagine Putin having anything that would be more damaging than the stuff that's publicly known though. Maybe he just fears him?


I think it's just more that Trump is super easy to manipulate.

He might have something on Trump, Trump has almost certainly done money laundering for Russian interests at some point in his business ventures, but I think the easier explanation is just that Trump is easy to manipulate for the average person, and Putin is a master manipulator anyway.
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Sep 9 2020 05:27pm
Quote (thundercock @ Sep 9 2020 07:15pm)
It really is bizarre. I can't imagine Putin having anything that would be more damaging than the stuff that's publicly known though. Maybe he just fears him?


I think two things are true. Trump has a set of genuine beliefs that are favorable to Russian interests, such as disliking NATO and our European allies, desire to pull back American power from the world, etc. Using these data points as evidence he's compromised is weak.

He also has an inexplicable coziness with Putin... he's not able to ever criticize him. He is defensive of him. He also repeats some strange talking points that almost seem like they've been fed to him on Putin calls. He's done business with Russians for years and tried to strike a lucrative real estate deal in Moscow while running for president. Maybe on one of his trips to Russia he was compromised in some way... maybe it's something financial.

Or maybe he just loves dictators who kill their opponents and enrich themselves in the process. What does Trump love more than "strength" and money? That's why I say it's a toss up.

Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 9 2020 07:25pm)
I think it's just more that Trump is super easy to manipulate.

He might have something on Trump, Trump has almost certainly done money laundering for Russian interests at some point in his business ventures, but I think the easier explanation is just that Trump is easy to manipulate for the average person, and Putin is a master manipulator anyway.


This is the more likely scenario. But before Trump became president they weren't talking on the phone, and Donald loved the guy.
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Sep 9 2020 05:30pm
Quote (Thor123422 @ Sep 9 2020 04:25pm)
I think it's just more that Trump is super easy to manipulate.

He might have something on Trump, Trump has almost certainly done money laundering for Russian interests at some point in his business ventures, but I think the easier explanation is just that Trump is easy to manipulate for the average person, and Putin is a master manipulator anyway.


Trump is incredibly easy to manipulate. Once you understand his narcissism, you can use that to your advantage. I think Kim has done this expertly.
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Sep 9 2020 05:34pm
The appeals court was asked by judge Sullivan to hear the Flynn case en banc allowing all appeals judges to hear the issue. The only 2 that voted to allow the dismissal were the original 2 that handed down the 2-1 ruling that the DOJ could pull a case for any reason at any stage.

So Flynn is back in the hot seat.
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Sep 10 2020 07:00am
Quote (IceMage @ 10 Sep 2020 01:27)
I think two things are true. Trump has a set of genuine beliefs that are favorable to Russian interests, such as disliking NATO and our European allies, desire to pull back American power from the world, etc. Using these data points as evidence he's compromised is weak.

He also has an inexplicable coziness with Putin... he's not able to ever criticize him. He is defensive of him. He also repeats some strange talking points that almost seem like they've been fed to him on Putin calls. He's done business with Russians for years and tried to strike a lucrative real estate deal in Moscow while running for president. Maybe on one of his trips to Russia he was compromised in some way... maybe it's something financial.

Or maybe he just loves dictators who kill their opponents and enrich themselves in the process. What does Trump love more than "strength" and money? That's why I say it's a toss up.



This is the more likely scenario. But before Trump became president they weren't talking on the phone, and Donald loved the guy.


I think his coziness with Putin is rather easy to explain, Putin is the type of politician Trump would like to be: virtually unchecked power within his country's political system, assertive, ruthless, efficient, gets away easily with enriching himself and his cronies, using heterodox foreign policy approaches to punch far above his country's weight class on the world stage, doesnt give a damn about the values and norms of Western liberals, considered to be the strong man who led his country out of the abyss back into a palatable-to-great future, etc.
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Sep 10 2020 07:50am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 10 2020 06:00am)
I think his coziness with Putin is rather easy to explain, Putin is the type of politician Trump would like to be: virtually unchecked power within his country's political system, assertive, ruthless, efficient, gets away easily with enriching himself and his cronies, using heterodox foreign policy approaches to punch far above his country's weight class on the world stage, doesnt give a damn about the values and norms of Western liberals, considered to be the strong man who led his country out of the abyss back into a palatable-to-great future, etc.


I thought you like trump. you literally just explained that he has a life goal of being Putin
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Sep 10 2020 10:48am
Quote (theCrossbones @ 10 Sep 2020 15:50)
I thought you like trump. you literally just explained that he has a life goal of being Putin


Trump is a blunt tool that's serving it's purpose perfectly well.
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Sep 10 2020 11:02am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ 10 Sep 2020 18:48)
Trump is a blunt tool that's serving it's purpose perfectly well.


and what exactly is its purpose? to kill americans while they are cheering for him? to completely undermine every trust in democracy? to divide the country beyond repair? to undermine the western alliance?

sure, you'd be right about that - but i have the feeling that you have a slightly different take on what he 'ackshually' does...
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Sep 10 2020 11:56am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Sep 10 2020 12:48pm)
Trump is a blunt tool that's serving it's purpose perfectly well.


Given the record of Trump's presidency, it's inevitable that his supporters will create the tiniest expectation that he can clear in order to have been successful. It'll probably involve some ridiculous bumper sticker line, like he drained the swamp, or he called out the establishment, or he fought for the working man. He didn't do any of those things effectively, but what's important is the narrative.
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Sep 10 2020 12:28pm
Quote (fender @ 10 Sep 2020 19:02)
and what exactly is its purpose? to kill americans while they are cheering for him? to completely undermine every trust in democracy? to divide the country beyond repair? to undermine the western alliance?

sure, you'd be right about that - but i have the feeling that you have a slightly different take on what he 'ackshually' does...


Quote (IceMage @ 10 Sep 2020 19:56)
Given the record of Trump's presidency, it's inevitable that his supporters will create the tiniest expectation that he can clear in order to have been successful. It'll probably involve some ridiculous bumper sticker line, like he drained the swamp, or he called out the establishment, or he fought for the working man. He didn't do any of those things effectively, but what's important is the narrative.


Trump caused liberals, the mainstream media and the Democratic party to lose their mind, expose themselves and adopt insane, unpopular policies which will destroy them once Trump is gone and the general disdain for him doesnt keep centrist voters in their column anymore.

He has also exposed the corruption and spinelessness of the Republican party, and contributed to destroying them from within. Furthermore, he has spurred a purge of the shitty Bush-style neocons from the party, and he has spurred a realignment away from religiously motivated social conservatism toward a populism-fueled cultural conservatism. He almost single-handedly buried fiscal conservatism and forced the GOP to move more toward the center on economic policy.

He has pushed back the creeping takeover of the federal judiciary by liberal activist judges and radically cut down on the bloated federal bureaucracy Obama had created. He stopped attempts at reducing the wiggle room of national politics via international "soft law".

He has widened the overton window to the right on issues like immigration, national identity, free trade and China. Indirectly, his unpopularity has also helped voices on the left to successfully expand the overton window in the other direction. Taken together, this will vitalize American politics and the public discourse in the long run.




All in all, Trump has caused a lot of realignments that I, personally, find great. The long-term changes induced by him are great in their own right, and even better when compared to the horrendous alternatives of a Jeb Bush or Hilary Clinton presidency. His ineptitude at running the day-to-day business of an administration dont change this. I never cared too much about that stuff tbh. But maybe that's my privilege as a foreign voyeur who isnt directly affected by Trump's blunders in day-to-day business.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Sep 10 2020 12:32pm
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