You think i have time to lose with the local 3 months Z-champion ? Wrong

I know you have no time to defend your own topic LMAO

https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92659217&f=119

RIP

Didn’t Putin lose already? Anytime now? Anything to add?

Just like they don't love all those ships now having to go around Africa thanks to the Houthis. You're overestimating soft power when shit hits the fan. We can theorize and say well the Chinese can influence the Iranians which they buy tons of oil from, to influence the Houthis to stop the attacks. In reality, that's not really how it works. If Russia was getting hit internally, you're banking they wouldn't retaliate through various means because of China? Far-reach

Russians ships sail through Suez. Chinese Evergreen has no problems sailing their things through.

This post was edited by Malopox on May 24 2024 12:17pm

I still think there's a lot of outbound trade from China heading to Europe for example that may be targeted. I remember reading how some western flagged vessels coming from China got targeted, which could still impact China. I do think naturally China would want to minimize Houthi economic impact on themselves but it's not as clean and easy as it may seem.

Evergreen and the likes are Chinese. Chinese produce majority of modern ships btw.

Whatever was targeted was probably owned by EU/US/ Israel.

The way I understand from - houthis allow Russian/Chinese vessels though. Having said that there was an accident with Trafigura carrying Russian oil products that got hit some months ago, but that seems to have been resolved now.

If a full-blown war between NATO and Russia breaks out, you're of course right. But if the conflict remains confined to both sides' proxies inflicting nagging damage on eath other, I absolutely see the Chinese interest in unimpeded trade with Europe trump the interest in punishing the West by increasing shipping costs via Houthi attacks. And keep in mind that Russia's economy and wartime production would decrease big time under the weight of Western sanctions if China wasn't supporting them with all the goods and materials they need. They are China's bitch now; as long as things aren't existential ("NATO bombing Moscow"), they will do Beijing's bidding.

Wait, so now Russia starting this war is China's proxy doing it's bidding?

Russia is fighting this war now because it wanted to stop its influence from being eroded in ex-soviet states, which ultimately benefits Russia. In the end, they won't maintain the whole of Ukraine but will at least hold onto an area the size of England, which is being integrated into Russia, with odds of this being reversed approaching zero.

I'm curious, if Russia gaining this land mass after it's all said and done is viewed as against their interest and 'bitch' behavior, what do you consider Germany? The Russians are getting lands and natural resources, the Germans got a permanently higher energy bill for decades to come and now are sending billions into Ukraine, with literally no benefit to the avg German taxpayer, only to further US/NATO ambitions.

To me it's pretty obvious who's bitch is making out better.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on May 25 2024 01:13pm

What is there not to understand? Russia started this war out of its own volition, no matter how justifed or unjustified it might have been. The ecomic fallout from this war of their choosing has dramatically increased their dependence on China, so their ability to go against Chinese interests is much lower now than it was before 2022. Now, post-Ukraine, they are a de facto vassal of Beijing. They weren't before.




The gained lots of empty land plus a couple of bombed out cities. The industry in the Donbass is sizable, but also horribly outdated and barely competitive on the global markets. So the main thing they will probably gain is some natural resources (of which they already had plenty before) and some farmland. And unlike what Goom loves to claim, they won't seize the bulk of Ukraine's farmland; it will be roughly one fourth to one third of it. They will presumably also prevent the rest of Ukraine from joining NATO anytime soon, but on the flip side, they just gained 1300km of new NATO border with Finland and the Baltic Sea is now completely controlled by NATO.

The price they have to pay for this conquest is a drastic deterioration of their relationship with Europe, the loss of their most solvent buyer of natural gas, well over a hundred thousand dead soldiers, dramatic government expenses for the war and burning through a big chunk of their remaining soviet-era arms and ammunition stockpiles.




Why do you single out Germany? It's far from the only European country affected by the loss of Russian pipeline gas. And the fallout from this war further drove inflation all around the globe, including in the US. I expect the presidential election to end up very tight, so this might well be the extra push which gets Trump over the hump and costs Biden his reelection.

Speaking about short-term economic effects, it would of course have been better for the entire West to turn a blind eye to Russia's invasion and keep trading and buying the cheap gas. It was a collective decision that it's presumably better in the long run to put a stop to Russia's apparent neo-imperialist ambitions now rather than later. Stopping them in Ukraine, a place which is ultimately disposable from our point of view, is better than having to do it in the Baltics or even in Poland.

Side note: all of Germany's multinational corporations are publicly traded, foreign investors hold an outright majority or at least a sizable minority of the stock of virtually all of them. US capital is particularly invested in the German economy, so it's not like they would be unfazed if Germany's economy goes into a deep recession or even crumbles. US investment firms and pension funds would lose billions of dollars in that scenario.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on May 25 2024 04:34pm