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May 22 2024 05:34am
Quote (Goomshill @ May 22 2024 12:22pm)
Russia has already lost several times, more ruskies soldiers have been killed than the population of the country several times over and moscow is nothing but irradiated glass. Ukraine pushed Russia out of its borders, reclaimed all its territory and seized all of Russia from Kaliningrad to the Pacific. How much more losing can Russia take?


Russia can win its way to a million casualties over the next two years.
They've failed their military objectives and moved the goalposts constantly.

There will be a negotiation at some point, currently not; Putin can't sell 12% of Ukraine's territory as a victory and survive.

Unless the antipathy and complicity of the Russian public knows no bounds, which is entirely possible based on previous outcomes.

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May 22 2024 05:35am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ May 22 2024 06:02am)
Define victory. Is it all of Ukraine? Just the Donbas? Kherson is in the constitution as a Russian Oblast, Kherson too?
Buffer zone in Kharkiv?
No Ukraine in NATO? Because that will happen if the war "ends".

Maybe its half a million or a million Russian lives for 15% of the poorest nation on the continent.
If thats "winning" damned if we know what losing looks like.


This is what I suggested 2 years ago. After all, why would Ukraine want to rule over lands populated by Russians and Russian speakers who want nothing to do with them? Better to cut their losses, emerge as a more unified country, and integrate Ukraine immediately into the EU/NATO framework. Instead we find ourselves two years out, with the prospect of an independent Ukraine at all a question mark.

We should take casualty figures with a grain of salt, not the least because everyone is lying. Ukraine has mobilized repeatedly, Russia has mobilized 300,000 personnel once. Ukrainian volunteers have dried up, Russian "volunteers" are still coming in numbers to both sustain current operations and open new fronts (see: Kharkiv). Ukrainian intelligence reports another ~10,000 men mobilizing on the Sumy-Kursk border. This hasn't come at the expense of operations in the Donbass and Donetsk / Zaporizhia border, where pace is increasing. Reports from Kharkiv are that Ukrainian units suffered heavy losses repelling the limited Russian advance. Casualties in the Donbass are heavy, as you'd expect when Russia has advanced beyond fortified lines (see: Adviivka) and has a 10:1 artillery and 3:1 (or more) personnel advantage.

Per Foreign Affairs...

Quote
Military experts believe that the Ukrainian army needs to triple its intake of recruits to sustain defensive operations at current levels of fighting.


Is this even possible? To your question about what winning looks like, somewhere between vassalizing all of Ukraine and seizing Odessa / Mykolaiv / Kherson / Zaporizhia / Donetsk / Luhansk / Kharkiv.
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May 22 2024 05:43am
Quote (bogie160 @ May 22 2024 12:35pm)
This is what I suggested 2 years ago. After all, why would Ukraine want to rule over lands populated by Russians and Russian speakers who want nothing to do with them? Better to cut their losses, emerge as a more unified country, and integrate Ukraine immediately into the EU/NATO framework. Instead we find ourselves two years out, with the prospect of an independent Ukraine at all a question mark.

We should take casualty figures with a grain of salt, not the least because everyone is lying. Ukraine has mobilized repeatedly, Russia has mobilized 300,000 personnel once. Ukrainian volunteers have dried up, Russian "volunteers" are still coming in numbers to both sustain current operations and open new fronts (see: Kharkiv). Ukrainian intelligence reports another ~10,000 men mobilizing on the Sumy-Kursk border. This hasn't come at the expense of operations in the Donbass and Donetsk / Zaporizhia border, where pace is increasing. Reports from Kharkiv are that Ukrainian units suffered heavy losses repelling the limited Russian advance. Casualties in the Donbass are heavy, as you'd expect when Russia has advanced beyond fortified lines (see: Adviivka) and has a 10:1 artillery and 3:1 (or more) personnel advantage.

Per Foreign Affairs...



Is this even possible? To your question about what winning looks like, somewhere between vassalizing all of Ukraine and seizing Odessa / Mykolaiv / Kherson / Zaporizhia / Donetsk / Luhansk / Kharkiv.


Partly true and I agree Ukraine was always divided along that generally east/west, Ukrainian/Russian axis.

I tend to believe if any "deal" was struck 2 years ago the cost to Russia's military would have been so low that more conflict would be inevitable. Akin to appeasement of Hitler of the Anschluss, Sudetenland or Rheineland.
Nobody is claiming its a great deal for Ukraine to fight on, but it was never even supposed to survive beyond a few months. Ukrainians didn't choose to be invaded after all.


Equally does Russia have the capability to take control of any three of these Oblasts? Odessa / Mykolaiv / Kherson / Zaporizhia / Donetsk / Luhansk / Kharkiv.
After they've had 10-1 artillery advantage for two years, they haven't done so.
Time will tell if Ukraines line will collapse.

I think Putin needs a tangible "victory" that he can negotiate from a position of strength.

I don't see Russia steamrolling thousands of miles of the front with the 30k a month cannon fodder they are bringing in from central asia or Cuba.
I can see Donetsk and Luhansk being under Russian control after more months and potentially years of attrition.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on May 22 2024 05:43am
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May 22 2024 05:51am
UK defence minister says China working to supply lethal aid to Russia
=> Vampires and gouls collaborating with Orcs-Goblins... Shocking.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk-defence-minister-says-china-working-supply-lethal-aid-russia-2024-05-22/
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May 22 2024 05:59am
Quote (Meanwhile @ 22 May 2024 13:51)
UK defence minister says China working to supply lethal aid to Russia
=> Vampires and gouls collaborating with Orcs-Goblins... Shocking.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk-defence-minister-says-china-working-supply-lethal-aid-russia-2024-05-22/


We are talking Warcraft right. You do know that vampires, ghouls and orcs are the good guys as per the lore?
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May 22 2024 06:24am
Quote (Malopox @ May 22 2024 01:59pm)
We are talking Warcraft right. You do know that vampires, ghouls and orcs are the good guys as per the lore?


Sure:


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May 22 2024 07:54am
Quote (Meanwhile @ May 22 2024 01:51pm)
UK defence minister says China working to supply lethal aid to Russia
=> Vampires and gouls collaborating with Orcs-Goblins... Shocking.
https://www.reuters.com/world/uk-defence-minister-says-china-working-supply-lethal-aid-russia-2024-05-22/


How many times did I tell you that Russia - China ties would only get stronger the more the West tries to isolate Russia...

By the way how many countries have supplied lethal aid to Ukraine?

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May 22 2024 01:08pm
Hungarian minister pointing out some facts.

Oh boy :rofl:

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May 22 2024 01:13pm
Quote (Djunior @ May 22 2024 03:54pm)
How many times did I tell you that Russia - China ties would only get stronger the more the West tries to isolate Russia...

By the way how many countries have supplied lethal aid to Ukraine?


China Absorbing Russia :rofl:



This is like the Blob.

This post was edited by Meanwhile on May 22 2024 01:14pm
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May 22 2024 01:26pm
Quote (Meanwhile @ May 22 2024 09:13pm)
China Absorbing Russia :rofl:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqA5NODRnQI

This is like the Blob.


Just like Russia collapsed 2 years ago and Putin died of cancer right?

Reality is that the West is getting desperate and cannot even supply Ukraine with the necessary amount of artillery shells

Pathetic
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