you said this:
Quote (dro94 @ Apr 11 2022 06:40pm)
Actually, the Persians won at Thermoplyae and it was a defeat for King Leonidas
in response to this:
Quote (ferdia @ Apr 11 2022 12:28pm)
Russia in no way shape or form can get a victory in Ukraine. They have already lost. By this I mean they are now ostracized from the international community and this will not change regardless of any military or treaty victory with Ukraine (or not). i.e. a phyrric victory.
to clarify what I meant, i had also said this:
Quote (ferdia @ Apr 11 2022 02:43pm)
I will try saying it another way, and i will use the most extreme example of a victory:
If Russia and Ukraine have a treaty, whereby Ukraine in its entirety decides to merge with Russia, to no longer aspire to Nato, to no longer aspire to EU and to be obedient to Russia - i.e. a Russian "Victory" - Russia will still have lost. By this I mean the West will not row back on the current sanctions and if anything they will double down on them.
i.e. the russians are the persians. Russia "wins" against Ukraine just like the Persians won against the Greeks at the hot gates. However, it is and was a hollow victory, noting they might win the battle but lose the global war being waged against them.
Finally, may I recommend the book "Gates of Fire" by Steven Pressfield. (Thermoplyae). I accept you are well read, you may have read this, but if not, it is certainly motivational.
This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 11 2022 01:19pm