this alone dilutes the US govt's role down to "well we knew they'd buy it", as if the demand for the vaccine in a pandemic wasn't already at maximum levels. let's say the US govt buys zero, and it goes into the privatized healthcare system, the pharma companies still make out like bandits. even with 4+ vaccines diluting the pool.

Except the Pfizer vaccine didn't come from any U.S. investment. We only guaranteed orders for Pfizer.

This seems to support the notion that all this investment and the timetable for development was virtually guaranteed due to the guaranteed demand for it. Ya know, market has basically infinite demand, so every company is maximizing their production.

This post was edited by Thor123422 on Apr 14 2021 09:27am

lol, i wouldn't even have mentioned it, if not for your initial claim that "US corporations were first to develop a vaccine" - which is a lie. so if anyone is being "retarded" here, it's clearly you.

and again, it was not "operation warpspeed" that funded the research, it was mainly the german government. you can get mad at me for jokingly taking credit for that, but it's just a REaction to you ridiculously trying to take credit on trump's behalf, when he had literally nothing to do with it whatsoever.

This post was edited by fender on Apr 14 2021 09:29am

The government's role here was "collaborator". Obviously, private sector investment was going to flow into big pharma to develop the vaccines because there's a profit opportunity here. But again that doesn't somehow negate that collaborator role, and you guys are pretending like that collaboration has either a zero or close to zero value when that's simply not true.

I'm not sure why there's this need from some people to separate accomplishments based on which political camp they support.
Trump did good and bad things during his presidency. Biden so far has some middle-of-the-road corporate tax proposals that he's willing to compromise that I can agree with while simultaneously disagreeing with some of his other things like the supreme court issue or his EO's.

Trump did some things wrong early on while doing much better later on during this last year, that's just fact. Some people though want to look at the early only because they want to continue to hate Trump while simultaneously discounting his later 'goods' and attributing them to Biden which is pretty dishonest.

It's the role of "executive producer".

if you're a famous person who's EP on an iffy project, and your name carries the project on the press junket, and you get distribution that you otherwise wouldn't, you're a good EP. your money was well spent, and your name likely made the project successful.

If you're EP on a Marvel Avengers movie you're a money bag. you could be the love child of Brad Pitt and the Queen of England and the movie's eventual success isn't going to change. Demand is at a near maximum regardless of who collaborates.

A vaccine in a global pandemic makes the demand for Avengers End Game look like a wet dog turd.

in short:

Im asking you what the government did as a collaborator.

Genuinely interested in what they did besides guarantee orders that were already guaranteed.

If so many can blame Trump for fumbling, rightfully so, to an extent at least, then you can't separate and minimize the positives, that's all I'm saying with this convo. But the people minimizing his efforts as exec producer are taking it a step further and basically saying all Trump did was bad and trying to divorce his positives and attribute them to Biden. Like that's just dishonest to me.



Vaccine development is only part of the puzzle. Logistics and infrastructure is also a fairly heavy lift when you're talking about this type of distribution attempt.

This is what warp speed was mainly about:




This post was edited by ofthevoid on Apr 14 2021 10:09am

Then I'll ask you again

WHAT. WERE. THE. POSITIVES.

Guaranteeing orders doesnt meaningfully contribute to vaccine development when its the entire worlds number one priority. Orders would be guaranteed under any administration as the bare minimum. So what do you actually have?

i think Trump's messaging on covid generally was bad, his messaging or lack thereof on the vaccine on his way out was bad, his guaranteed buys for the vaccine were meh, and his lack of overreaching plan with the rollout (which Biden is following) was good.

but its perfectly legitimate to think his messaging was awful even if letting the free market take over the rollout is good. the fact that he offered to pay for the vaccine, let the public take a stake in it's success, offered automatic buys to pharma, and didnt go out of his way to push the vaccine itself before he left office is absurd. and to me a clear signal he knows his base that he can profit off of post-POTUS is also heavily leaning towards anti-vaxx. sheister ass move.

This post was edited by thesnipa on Apr 14 2021 10:11am

What most governments including ours did during the last 12 months is much more than just enable the free market. A lot of the overreaching and rollout seems to be underweighted in your analysis when I think that's actually a really important point. Like look at Europe. They aren't struggling because there's no vaccine, they're fumbling around with the rollout.