Oh I saw that one already. The guy is a hack, a failed politician. This is an accepted fact. He resigned after he ruined his country because of his ego (Brexit, Scotland Independence Vote) and he is busy reinventing himself now.

RE: the embassy, at least he said Israel did it. My view on reality is that there is a "rules-based-order". my interpretation of this comment is that the west (including Israel in here) can do what it wants, and the rest of the world has to suck it up. Might is Right and all that. While Cameron is not wrong that the Iranian response was a massive and disproportionate shock and awe tactic, (IMO they would have been better off simply blowing up an embassy somewhere else), I get the impression it was not just the embassy they were responding to, they were also responding to the 30,000+ dead in Gaza.

I don't care what anyone says, the Iranian response was disproportionate and not in Iranian interests. Israel's entire culture is based around the concept of hitting back 10 times as hard. its in their DNA, so lets wait and see what happens.

David Cameron did not say Russia can strike embassies. He did not answer the question. He basically said "Israel decided to do it". so to transpose that to Russia, he could say "Russia decided to do it". of course he would condemn Russia and support Israel. Different Strokes, Different Folks. He is not a unbiased politician. most politicians are hypocrites these days.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 18 2024 03:18am

No he didn't directly say it, but he does downplay it heavily and I think the implication of what he said is that Israel shouldn't be held accountable for their attack while Iran should. I don't know if that was what Malopox was referring to but I think he was just poking fun at the hypocrisy of it all.

What about the Iranian response do you think was disproportionate? I was completely surprised by it, I thought they would simply put out a scary sounding statement and not actually do anything. That said, the amount of weapons used was mostly to bypass air defence which they and everyone else knew would stop the majority of their slow moving drones. What managed to get through caused negligible damage from all accounts I've seen and I think that was intentional.

Were I them I wouldn't have done it but I think they pulled it off incredibly well, they managed to assert some dominance in the region after an embarrasing loss and also showed Israel and the world that even with pre warning/western air support Iran can still hit Israel. That is a pretty valuable accomplishment for Iran in my opinion and a strong warning.

That's just my subjective opinion on it, not trying to argue im correct, I'm just curious about your reasoning regarding the Iranian response being disproportionate

If you hit an embassy, a proportionate response would be for them to hit one of yours. The sheer volume of ordinance used, and the type of weapons used, is a disproportionate, escalatory response. take any two countries.

Country A blows up an embassy
Country B launches ballistic missiles

thats a disproportionate response, regardless/irrespective of life lost (or not lost).

There are of course huge glaring considerations here:

1. Israel collectively punishing Palestine / their ethnic arab minorities (pick one), mass slaughter of civilians.
2. Iran telegraphing the attack, aiming at locations to ensure the minimum amount of fatalities.

This post was edited by ferdia on Apr 18 2024 04:30am

"What underpins the rules based international order?
There is no shortage of international laws, rules, and norms, as well as organizations that oversee them, but since 1945, it has all centered on the United Nations and its charter. 193 countries have acceded to the UN Charter as member states, declaring their wish to be part of the community of nations. As part of the deal, they are obliged to follow the fundamental principles and provisions that extend from that charter.

While there are many different things that inform international laws, rules, and norms—particularly by functional area—the core of it may be broken down into the following:

UN Charter
Universal Declaration of Human Rights
UN Security Council Resolutions
UN General Assembly Resolutions
International conventions (e.g., the Geneva conventions)
Treaties (e.g., the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty)
International agreements (non-treaty level ceasefire agreements, framework agreements, joint declarations, etc.)
International court or tribunal rulings (e.g., the 2016 South China Sea Arbitral Tribunal ruling)

This list is not exhaustive, which in part contributes to some confusion over the rules-based international order; after all, there is no single tome that one can reference that clearly lays out every law, rule, and norm. Complicating matters is that each of the things listed above have varying levels of binding influence or effect."

https://www.parleypolicy.com/post/the-rules-based-international-order-explained

Agree with a lot of what you've said but your mistake is assuming the Iranian regime care about Palestinians casualties. They do not.
Iran is the greatest destabilising factor in the middle east. Period.

https://edition.cnn.com/2024/04/17/politics/mike-johnson-ukraine-aid/index.html

US house bills moving forward on military aid to Israel, Ukraine, Taiwan and other allies. This will have anti-West trolls frothing a the mouth.
However whatever the outcome the delay and stuttering of the US political system to fund its allies will send clear messages to EU politicians.

The war dividend is over.
Merkels "Wandel durch Hande" is dead.

And a real EU deterrent needs to be established unless Europeans accept the will not be in control of their own fate.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Apr 18 2024 04:39am

The West making the rules and giving the orders

how can you say that Djunior? are you rational?

Which rules and which orders?

Yes

Latest example is the bombing of the Iranian embassy, another notable example the bombing of NS pipelines and the US vetoed the Russian request for a UN investigation

It happens all the time