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Mar 14 2024 03:31am
Quote (ferdia @ 14 Mar 2024 12:18)
I will completely agree it was a, the, catalyst. If that mollifies you. All I am saying is that there was active outside interference to push it along, which in my opinion was monumentally dumb.



can agree with both of these.



right, nothing happened in eastern Ukraine 2014-2022, also the tooth fairy is real and santa is transgender.



Just look were people fled, I said this yesterday. 1M to Russia and 9-10? million to the west. for sure Western Ukraine aligns with the west and eastern ukraine (to a degree) aligns with the east (russia). It is far more appealing to be western aligned. Your opening the door for a sphere of influence comment. pity the poor cubans for a moment. If you want to ignore that this was a US backed Coup, have at it, even there there is a certain famous call. If you want to deny what happened between 2014-2022 or move the goal posts "Neither Ukraine nor Russia signed the cluster munition treaty" have at it.

all of these conversations have already been had in this topic, if you want that conversation just look over the topic. I agree with ownyaah a better conversation is "what happens next".


Cubans are fine

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Mar 14 2024 03:57am
Quote (Ashirgo @ 14 Mar 2024 09:52)
I'm calling him out for distorting the picture.

Neither Ukraine nor Russia signed the cluster munition treaty, so it's whatever; they're using what they've got. Crying about this when you're Russian or Ukrainian is very hypocritical. The Human Rights Watch would gladly see both sides stop using this type of armament. Picking exclusively on one side for using these bombs is strongly indicating that he is not honest.

Lastly, he reduced the entire Ukrainian defense/fight back effort to "bombing," as if that was the only thing they're doing. This again indicates that ferdia takes a strong stance in this discussion, and is far from being objective.

Happy to call you out on your subversions/distortions anytime!


1) Neither Russians, nor Ukranians should use cluster munitions against densely populated cities irrespectively whether they signed the cluster munitions convention or not.

2) Next to bombings there were also murders, kidnappings, torture and rapes. It is fair to say that both separatist forces and Ukranian forces engaged in it, but that doesn’t make these things just or right. There should be fair trial and a chance to defend themselves for all participants of this conflict.

https://www.amnesty.be/IMG/pdf/2016_you_don_t_exist_arbitrary_detentions_enforced_disappearances_and_torture_in_eastern_ukraine.pdf

If we allow Western aligned Ukranians to overthrow the government with violence and direct the country towards EU / NATO - we should allow the same to people that do not want to go this course. If the stakes have been raised to acquiring power through violence - we should either condemn both sides for using it, or allow people that do not wish to end ties with Russia to take up arms and defend themselves if democratic processes failed them.
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Mar 14 2024 05:47am
So the French seem to really want to go to war with Russia.France's Assemblée Nationale approved the "Ukraine first strategy". Apparently Macron will give a peech later today to clarify the recent French aid package and to expand on his comments about putting boots on the ground.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/politics/article/2024/03/12/french-pm-warns-of-tipping-point-as-parliament-approves-macron-s-ukraine-strategy_6612070_5.html

Also I remember reading somewhere that the French wanted to bring the poles along for the ride (not sure on this) and with the recent toys they bought, it does kinda pass the smell test:

96 Apache attack helicopters
821 AGM-158B-2 JASSM Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile with Extended Range
745 AIM-120C-8 air-to-air missiles
232 AIM-9X Sidewinder Block II tactical missiles

https://defence-blog.com/poland-to-buy-missiles-from-u-s-in-3-7b-sale/
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Mar 14 2024 07:18am
Quote (zorzin @ Mar 14 2024 11:47am)
So the French seem to really want to go to war with Russia.France's Assemblée Nationale approved the "Ukraine first strategy". Apparently Macron will give a peech later today to clarify the recent French aid package and to expand on his comments about putting boots on the ground.

https://www.lemonde.fr/en/politics/article/2024/03/12/french-pm-warns-of-tipping-point-as-parliament-approves-macron-s-ukraine-strategy_6612070_5.html

Also I remember reading somewhere that the French wanted to bring the poles along for the ride (not sure on this) and with the recent toys they bought, it does kinda pass the smell test:

96 Apache attack helicopters
821 AGM-158B-2 JASSM Air-to-Surface Standoff Missile with Extended Range
745 AIM-120C-8 air-to-air missiles
232 AIM-9X Sidewinder Block II tactical missiles

https://defence-blog.com/poland-to-buy-missiles-from-u-s-in-3-7b-sale/


Its called strategic ambiguity. And the EU leaders could/should have done it from the start; Akin to the US saying they will act in defence on Taiwan, leaving China guessing if they really would or not is in itself a deterrent.
It also sounds strong for Macrons domestic base who afaik are leaning away from him towards the right. The French have an effective military but usually only when it comes to tepid sand covered battlefields.

Macron wants to get involved in the Ukraine war as much as Putin wants a strong and functioning political opposition.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 14 2024 07:19am
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Mar 14 2024 07:26am
So Validimir Harkonnen soon legitimately elected president ? :rofl:
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Mar 14 2024 07:31am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 14 2024 02:18pm)


Macron wants to get involved in the Ukraine war as much as Putin wants a strong and functioning political opposition.


France, as well as any other NATO member, has to keep up their defence spending at around 2% or higher, so part of this will be of course new equipment acquisitions.

So cute to see this misrepresented as "oh no, look, they are preparing to challenge us".
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Mar 14 2024 07:37am
Latvia tightens their screws on the Russian speaking minority in their country. This leads from exclusion from civil service jobs and the loss of their residency permits to deportation to Russia.

The article also states how the Russians got there in the first place: "Most are descendants of the Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians that Soviet dictator Josef Stalin resettled in Latvia from other parts of the U.S.S.R. At the same time, Stalin had tens of thousands of residents of the Baltic republic taken away and locked into Siberian camps."
https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/language-tests-and-deportations-latvia-tightens-the-screws-on-its-russian-minority-a-f3c29783-a1d3-4f09-9e52-55d339ac50c3

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 14 2024 10:18am)

right, nothing happened in eastern Ukraine 2014-2022, also the tooth fairy is real and santa is transgender.


I didn't say that. We have different opinions on the matter and I provided you with my sources and you with yours.
Based on that I do not come to the same conclusions but to each their own.

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Mar 14 2024 07:59am
Quote (Gala @ Mar 14 2024 02:37pm)
Latvia tightens their screws on the Russian speaking minority in their country. This leads from exclusion from civil service jobs and the loss of their residency permits to deportation to Russia.

The article also states how the Russians got there in the first place: "Most are descendants of the Russians, Ukrainians and Belarusians that Soviet dictator Josef Stalin resettled in Latvia from other parts of the U.S.S.R. At the same time, Stalin had tens of thousands of residents of the Baltic republic taken away and locked into Siberian camps."
https://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/language-tests-and-deportations-latvia-tightens-the-screws-on-its-russian-minority-a-f3c29783-a1d3-4f09-9e52-55d339ac50c3



I didn't say that. We have different opinions on the matter and I provided you with my sources and you with yours.
Based on that I do not come to the same conclusions but to each their own.


Good job pointing that out.

Reminds me of what Ukraine did (and which has been denied by the usual suspects all through this topic)
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Mar 14 2024 08:20am
Russia coming for Latvia next boys. They bout to find out this time.

Or maybe its just an excuse for revisionist expansion after all :rolleyes:

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 14 2024 08:21am
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Mar 14 2024 08:22am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 14 2024 03:20pm)
Russia coming for Latvia next boys. They bout to find out this time.


NATO should bomb Latvia for discriminating minorities just like NATO bombed Serbia :thumbsup:
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