"opinions"

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-25162563

There is hundreds if not thousands of articles on this, the rejection happened -> demostrations -> civil war

unless there is some type of godlike coincidence

This post was edited by ownyaah on Mar 13 2024 06:19pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euromaidan

There isn´t a single mention of nato there, but 50+ times of european union

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Anyhow none of this matters, this is simply world order power politics, it is mechanics of human nature and they will arrive where god intends it to.

This post was edited by ownyaah on Mar 13 2024 06:24pm

Why is the Maidan considered a 'legitimate' revolution and the new government recognized by the west?
That's the simple breaking point for all the arguments about Ukraine. That's where all the negotiations broke down, that's the hinge of Macron's phone call with Putin, that's still what we're hung up on today


I maintain there's still absolutely zero way in which pro-Maidan revolutionaries can both insist their coup d'etat was legitimate and democratic and still lay claim to the east. Even if you want to spin it as a grassroots movement of the western population to ally with the west, then that makes a justification for a separatist movement, ala the American south in the civil war. It doesn't give them claim to the east, and its a sundering of a legitimate democracy to begin with, which liberals have spent the past 200 years telling us is a horrific unthinkable crime.

The point i made was, even if (this is a mental exercise) maidan was legitimate, what followed was not.

Maidan happened on the premise of EU membership, and the istanbul deal satisfied this premise, yet there was no peace?

This leaves 2 possibilities:

Either it has to do with crimea (status russian)
Militarism and nato - most likely culprit

This post was edited by ownyaah on Mar 13 2024 06:36pm

I mean, any argument for legitimacy over the EU deal premise has to deal with the fact people could have simply voted for a pro-EU candidate in the next election. And if only half the country supported EU membership, what right do they have to impose their will on the other half? Not a democratic majority. So if they absolutely had to have EU membership and it justified throwing out democracy, like the US south absolutely needing their slaves, how can it give claim to the east? Separatist movements around the world justify breaking off because they are discriminated against, autonomous, or ya know, bombarded for 10 years by an anti-democratic government seeking to tyrannize them.

It don’t mean this personal but you are being very optimistic with your statements. The one article from HRW that you posted states a couple of civilian casualties caused by cluster bombs fired from Ukranian positions which partly malfunctioned and surfaced shortly after they were launched.
This article was posted in 2014, shortly after Euromadian happened and Russian mercenaries stirred up the conflict which led to the war in the Donbass regions.

As for the 1 million Ukranians “fleeing” to Russia: Human Rights Watch documented that Ukrainian civilians were being forcibly transferred to Russia.The UN Human Rights Office stated "There have been credible allegations of forced transfers of unaccompanied children to Russian occupied territory, or to the Russian Federation itself."

https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/09/01/forcible-transfer-ukrainians-russia

More on the topic
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2023/08/21/the-ukrainians-forced-to-flee-to-russia

Can't wait for all these traitors to be neutralized

So apparently photo claimed by Russian Legion of ‘liberated’ Tetkino, Kursk region of Russia was in fact a border village on the Ukrainian side proven by geolocation.

So dumb. This is such a joke, except more of tragedy because people literally died just to create a pretense…

https://x.com/julianroepcke/status/1768013682519183496?s=46

A real question is, what do the local people want? Can you prove they truly want to be in bed with Putin? Or do they desire some western goodies instead? Both sides want you to believe their story.



This post was edited by Ashirgo on Mar 14 2024 12:14am

The Russians from the Legion filmed this in a Ukrainian village, while the Ukrainians, under the guise of the Legion, actually died near Tetkino. This is even worse.

This post was edited by Norlander on Mar 14 2024 12:22am