That's not a reason.

completely agree. When the US carried out their coup in 2014 in Ukraine, wait, do you accept that there was a US backed coup in 2014 ? if you dont agree, lets move on, after the Pro Russian puppets were replaced with Pro American puppet, eastern ukraine said, we did not vote for you, we want to pick a side ourselves. Ukraine then bombed its own people for 8 years, (over 1m people fled to Russia) until finally Russia intervened.

happy to be challenged on any of that. What is your spin on the events of 2014 - 2022 ?



In your opinion its not a reason, but in my opinion starting a conflict that Ukraine cant win is just dumb, not quite as dumb as refusing to agree on a settlement in 2013 but well IQ's are not what they once were. And if they do "Win" no one wins because Russia is likely to kick the chess board off the table and punch someone (and even then Russia does not win, no one wins).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 13 2024 04:40pm

Russia started a conflict in 2014 when it annexed Ukraine's sovereign territory; Russia further escalated with a full scale invasion (full scale military operation ) in 2022.

He asked why Western sphere of influence was not desirable. Its not desirable to Putin because democracy is a threat to dictators.

It appears that the easternmost part of Ukraine may be indeed mostly populated with people who feel as much Russian as Ukrainian. So I m not surprised that Russia had easy time establishing some sort of governance and then armed the local population to act as separatists.

If some Ukrainians then fought against the Kiev forces., it's no surprise that they ended bombed. I don't think you had to make this sound so dramatic. Christians and protestants also weren't very fond of each other in Northern Ireland. You could call both sides Irish, but it seems to me that in this case the notion of nationality takes a backseat.

I wouldn't be surprised if the events of 2014 were part of a US vs Russia game of power. In these cases it's either Russia rigging local elections or the US.

A real question is, what do the local people want? Can you prove they truly want to be in bed with Putin? Or do they desire some western goodies instead? Both sides want you to believe their story.

In reality the mechanics how this happens is a lot more complex than just buying a few puppets or being full organic grassroots. There's a generational angle to it. A lot of the older generations, call it boomers and older remember the good old days of communism (not being facetious here, during the 70s and 80s a lot of these republics were relatively well off, food, housing, job security, they had all the necessities, people had purpose and there was social cohesion. The sense of belonging and purpose was actually much more pronounced and better cultivated than in many current wealthy western states. I speak from personal experience having talked to dozens of these older folks and their perception from the time that lived there).

The younger people, call it millennials+, never lived through this. What they did live through is the collapse, and the decade of poverty. The 90s were really bad for all these ex-soviet states. (It's also one of the reasons why the older people were wishful for the 'good old commie days', because what came in the 90s was objectively worse). After the collapse as these kids grew up, on Hollywood movies, wanting to wear western brands (the old meme of Slavs loving Adidas), wanting the newest western tech brands and so on, wanting to go visit and study in the US/Europe, there was a natural and organic wish to turn towards US/Europe.

Today many of these younger people want to be part of the west. The issue though is, as I already pointed towards is the US/CIA/State Dept, & other aligned interests decided to fast track this and take something that was happening organically and put their own hands on to basically seize control. We don't really have to create these puppets, there's already a fair portion of support that wants to turn to the west, what we do is grease the right palms, sponsor the right people while pushing out the Russian aligned ones. We really should have let this happen organically, instead of inflaming the region.

Russia right now really doesn't have a lot to offer, but this kind of thought is predicated that the west is always going to be the shining bright light to which all of these people would be drawn too. American exceptionalism will fade one day just like every single other empire has faded, and it's probably not wise to be distancing and aligning yourself against your much larger neighbor who you're stuck next to and has repeatedly shown a willingness to go to war.

it is not normal to cluster bomb your own people for 8 years. downplaying what happened makes no sense to me. the simple fact is 1million ukrainians fled ukraine, to Russia. that is my answer. If you want to down play it then the obvious counter is, russia then invaded, no need to make a big deal out of it.



completely agree.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 13 2024 05:54pm

Aren´t u guys tired of these same low quality subhuman conversations?

I´ll give you something interesting to think about

1. West-ukraine coup replaces yanukovych because he didn´t accept the invitation european union offered. The coup had nothing to do with nato.

2. Leaks of istanbul deal clearly states that EU membership of ukraine will be tolerated by russia but Nato will not

So the coup happened for the sake of EU-membership, which was acceptable by putin by 2023 in istanbul yet ukranian side declined the deal.

---------------

So what conclusions can you draw based on these 2 facts?

This post was edited by ownyaah on Mar 13 2024 05:58pm

several things can be opined on, why dont you give your conclusions and we will either agree or disagree. I am not commenting on your statements other then to state that i disagree with your assertions.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 13 2024 06:04pm

It should reorient towards israel&turkey&azerbaijan

Perhaps this time we can have a live streamed Armenian genocide. Perhaps armenia can be ruled by grey wolves




Hard to call it assertions when the deal was leaked

This post was edited by ownyaah on Mar 13 2024 06:10pm

Point 1 was your opinion. I dont agree with it
Point 2 is an easier point to comment on - the main takeaway i have is that if true, it shows Russia is prepared to compromise, but the United States is not.

so when you give the reasons for the coup - that is your opinion.

if that makes sense. we dont have to agree on everything here.