Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 13 2024 09:02am)

Air vice-marshal Sean Bells latest take, he is not afraid to admit areas where Russia is making gains; Also not shy to pour water on ideas that are not realistic, like "is Putins regime about to collapse?" he shuts down these unrealistic ideas pretty fairly.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eOSrVOu58hk

My take is that the Russian air force won't "run away with the war" but they will be able to enact conditions similar to what happened in Avdiivka, where they were dropping around 100 of these 1500kg bombs per day. The limiting factors to the success this tactic can have are the frontline is massive and even after aerial bombardment ground troops still have to physically take ground at great cost.

Ukraine will have to commit its anti air capability to areas they want to counter this capability. It does not have enough to cover the entire front in ways they would want.
I think what they have being doing is telling. They have been targeting the A-50's. They want to degrade Russia's capability in an asymmetrical way. Basically they can't meaningfully erode the volume of Russian jets and munitions but they could damage the effectiveness of Russian air power.

They also need an attack capability with its own airforce, eg F-16's able to cross into Russia and attack Russian airbases. This obviously has great risk for Ukrainian pilots and even 60 F-16s will not be enough to remove tip the balance of air superiority in Ukraines favour.

Around about 25:00 he explains the optics of Russias imminent threat to Europe ^zorzin

Quote (Hobbiks @ Mar 13 2024 05:22am)

Who said I wasnt? Media theory is very clear on the fact that the western media (because of its profit interest which is tied to capitalism which is tied to state actors) essentially creates a hegemony where the biggest newspapers avoid topics or frame topics in a different way. I think it's hilarious that you think this was some sort of slam dunk because nobody disagrees with this, even in the "woke" stronghold that is academia. I also think its funny that you ask me questions like "you know western propaganda exists" when i have quoted more propaganda theory then you have read in your life, in this very thread. Everyone from Elluls to Jowett & O'Donnell agree that propaganda exists everywere, in every state and functions in different ways.

The stark difference and contrast between western propaganda and eastern propaganda is:
1) Western propaganda is heavily criticized from media and rhetorics scholars and academia in the west. In the east the same is not true, if you criticize internal propaganda structures and hegemony there are severe punishments.
2) The west does not use computational propaganda (which is malicious by intent) to the same degree as countries in the east. If you want sources on how the algorithm functions proactively to not allow for Russian independent media to become viral on websites like Yandex then i'd love to provide them. This is not the case in the west, where alternative media faces hardships and is disincentivized in different ways than the state making it impossible to see on your news feed.
3) The state involvement in media is completely different in for instance Russia than in France, Norway or even the US. In Russia during Soviet times there was a direct line from the Kreml to the big media outlets and the state owned media channels, after Soviet collapsed this line was removed. The direct line was reinstated under Putin and there are weekly meetings every thursday setting the agenda for the next week in terms of state affairs. This is unprecedented in any western country. Even a layman knows this.

Who "came up with" something is completely uninteresting to me. What is interesting is how it's being discussed in terms of propaganda in the war between Russia and Ukraine (which is what the thread is about). There are fantastic articles by among others Roman Horbyk about first step theory, inocculation theory etc. Again, if you are interested i'll gladly teach you about it and send you the links.

Quote (Djunior @ Mar 13 2024 03:15pm)

Don't try to make it sound like I'm the one who started rambling about conspiracy theories, YOU did. (as I just showed everyone here)

Mentioning Ursula is NOT strange because we were talking Ukrainian casualty numbers.

In fact the whole Ukrainian casualty numbers issue is something strange, Zelensky recently said they only have 31K killed (entire conflict)

Taking about marginalizing Ukrainian casualties lol

Inb4 another dodge

Quote (Ashirgo @ Mar 13 2024 05:25am)

I don't have much to add to the excellent reply from Hobbiks, however I can still muster a tongue-in-cheek reply: you know we also have armies in the West, right? It turns out we need to have every tool that Russia has, we just use them differently.

And why would I care if I'm deep in a trench of western propaganda? Last time I checked, I can criticise my country's leaders and walk free. Try that in Russia.

Quote (Hobbiks @ Mar 13 2024 03:40pm)

Let me quote you:

"So according to you the EU president in an official public appearance pulled some numbers out of her ass? Now who is building conspiracy theories lol" - This is from one page ago. Im asking you, but you refuse to respond: A conspiracy theory? Can you explain what a conspiracy theory is and how I was building one? Who am I alledging are in a conspiracy and against or for what? :)

"Mentioning Ursula is NOT strange because we were talking Ukrainian casualty numbers" - Who said it was strange? You brought her up and i refuted your absolutely crazy claims. I repeat: I don't know where she got her numbers from 1.5 years ago, I guess you have to ask her. All I know is any numbers she had were unverified and were redacted.

"In fact the whole Ukrainian casualty numbers issue is something strange, Zelensky recently said they only have 31K killed (entire conflict" - Something I have repeated multiple times but that you don't seem to understand (or just ignore because it's patently obvious that you don't read other peoples responses, because of your severe cognitive bias). The ONLY official numbers are Ukrainian numbers and they are from a STATE ACTOR (as such, they should probably be taken with a grain of salt). The only numbers you have to go off are Zelenskys numbers, because Russia doesn't release any statistics. So you have the option of A) Trusting completely unverified 1.5 year old information that has been recanted, B) Trusting Zelenskys numbers about Ukrainian deaths or C) Being skeptical about any numbers put out because they aren't official.

You chose A), which is pretty surprising considering you are fast to call other people western shills, but you blindly believe what the president of the EU says. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Really looking forward to you recanting your racantation and apology for calling me a "liar" and claiming i am "builing conspiracy theories" however.

Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Mar 13 2024 03:40pm)

Lol you seem very secure in your beliefs having a meltdown like this over a couple questions :rofl:

You could have just summed this all up with "yes i am affected by western propaganda which is why I view the same things happening in other countries as evil while seeing it as necessary and normal when mine does it."

Genuinely think this is a solid tactic by the powers that be though, people like you will not only support whatever horrific plans they try to enact, you will actively harass others into doing so as well. Why pay trolls when you can just convince stupid people to do the same thing for free?

Is this the guy you mentioned btw? Lol!
https://i.imgur.com/Wss005s.jpg

Quote (Djunior @ Mar 13 2024 03:46pm)

1) YOU accused users here of being conspiracy theorists so go ahead and read up the definition
2) I mentioned Ursula because of the casualty numbers. Obviously

If you don't get these simple things I cannot help you.

Also I'm noy going to engage with your weird games here. I'm consistent if you still didn't get it

Quote (Hobbiks @ Mar 13 2024 03:49pm)

I quoted you, and I would like to get a response about that, not just obscure whataboutisms because you are getting frustrated.

"So according to you the EU president in an official public appearance pulled some numbers out of her ass? Now who is building conspiracy theories lol" - This is from one page ago. Im asking you, but you refuse to respond: A conspiracy theory? Can you explain what a conspiracy theory is and how I was building one? Who am I alledging are in a conspiracy and against or for what? :)

"2) I mentioned Ursula because of the casualty numbers. Obviously" - Who 1.5 years ago was talking about unconfirmed numbers that have been recanted. I don't think this is the slam dunk you are hoping for. If you wanna agree with the EU president 1.5 years ago then go ahead, but you and Ursula would probably both be incorrect, as those numbers arent verified. Id rather take deaths with a grain of salt personally.

Really looking forward to you recanting your racantation and apology for calling me a "liar" and claiming i am "builing conspiracy theories" however.

Quote (Djunior @ Mar 13 2024 03:59pm)

I'm consistent, not frustrated. Keep trying

Quote (Hobbiks @ Mar 13 2024 04:02pm)

Well then, shouldn't be an issue to respond to this simple question then considering this is your quote: "So according to you the EU president in an official public appearance pulled some numbers out of her ass? Now who is building conspiracy theories lol" - This is from one page ago. Im asking you, but you refuse to respond: A conspiracy theory? Can you explain what a conspiracy theory is and how I was building one? Who am I alledging are in a conspiracy and against or for what? :)

Really looking forward to you recanting your racantation and apology for calling me a "liar" and claiming i am "builing conspiracy theories" however.