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Mar 12 2024 03:41pm
Quote (Meanwhile @ Mar 12 2024 09:32pm)
Clowns involving "NATO's fault" or "Russian PEACE" fucking debunked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lR1JVFjWU8

regards


stopped at 51 seconds :P

Bless.
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Mar 12 2024 10:14pm
French Newspaper Marianne claims to have been leaked high level confidential defense reports on the Ukraine war

https://www.marianne.net/monde/europe/guerre-en-ukraine-endurance-russe-echec-de-la-contre-offensive-ce-que-cache-le-virage-de-macron
https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1767562336452440422

Quote
A Ukrainian military victory now seems impossible"
The reports Marianne consulted write that Ukraine's counter-offensive "gradually bogged down in mud and blood and did not result in any strategic gain" and that its planning, conceived by Kiev and Western general staffs, turned out to be "disastrous": "Planners thought that once the first Russian defense lines were breached, the entire front would collapse [...] These fundamental preliminary phases were conducted without considering the moral forces of the enemy in defense: that is, the will of the Russian soldier to hold onto the terrain".

The reports also highlight "the inadequacy of the training of Ukrainian soldiers and officers": due to a lack of officers and a significant number of veterans, these "Year II soldiers" from Ukraine - often trained for "no more than three weeks" - were launched into an assault on a Russian fortification line that proved impregnable.

Without any air support, with disparate Western equipment that was less efficient than the old Soviet material ("obsolete, easy to maintain, and capable of being used in degraded mode", the report mentions), the Ukrainian troops had no hope of breaking through. Add to this the "Russian super-dominance in the field of electronic jamming penalizing, on the Ukrainian side, the use of drones and command systems".

"The Russian army is today the 'tactical and technical' reference for thinking and implementing the defensive mode," writes the report. Not only does Moscow have heavy engineering equipment that allowed it to construct defensive works ("almost total absence of this material on the Ukrainian side, and the impossibility for Westerners to supply it quickly") but the 1,200 km front, known as the Sourokovine line (after a Russian general), has been mined to a huge extent.

The reports also highlight that contrary to Ukraine "the Russians have managed their reserve troops well, to ensure operational endurance." According to this document, Moscow reinforces its units before they are completely worn out, mixes recruits with experienced troops, ensures regular rest periods in the rear... and "always had a coherent reserve force to manage unforeseen events." This is far from the widespread idea in the West of a Russian army sending its troops to the slaughter without counting...

"To date, the Ukrainian general staff does not have a critical mass of land forces capable of inter-arms maneuver at the corps level capable of challenging their Russian counterparts to break through its defensive line," concludes this confidential defense report, according to which "the gravest error of analysis and judgment would be to continue to seek exclusively military solutions to stop the hostilities". A French officer summarizes: "It is clear, given the forces present, that Ukraine cannot win this war militarily."

"The conflict entered a critical phase in December"
"The combativeness of Ukrainian soldiers is deeply affected," mentions a forward-looking report for the year 2024. "Zelensky would need 35,000 men per month, he's not recruiting half of that, while Putin draws from a pool of 30,000 volunteers per month," observes a military officer returned from Kiev. In terms of equipment, the balance is just as unbalanced: the failed offensive of 2023 "tactically destroyed" half of Kiev's 12 combat brigades.

Since then, Western aid has never been so low. It is therefore clear that no Ukrainian offensive can be launched this year. "The West can supply 3D printers to manufacture drones or loitering munitions, but can never print men," notes this report. "Given the situation, it may have been decided to strengthen the Ukrainian army, not with fighters, but with support forces, in the rear, allowing Ukrainian soldiers to be freed up for the front," admits a senior officer, confirming a "ramp-up" of Western military personnel in civilian clothes. "Besides the Americans, who allowed the New York Times to visit a CIA camp, there are quite a few Britons," slips a military officer, who does not deny the presence of French special forces, notably combat swimmers for training missions...

"The risk of a Russian breakthrough is real"
On February 17, Kiev had to abandon the city of Avdiivka, in the northern suburbs of Donetsk, which had until then been a fortified stronghold. "It was both the heart and symbol of Ukrainian resistance in the Russian-speaking Donbass," highlights a report on the "battle of Avdiivka," drawing a series of damning lessons. "The Russians changed their modus operandi by compartmentalizing the city, and especially by using gliding bombs on a large scale for the first time," notes this document. When a 155mm artillery shell carries 7 kg of explosive, the gliding bomb delivers between 200 and 700 kg and can thus pierce concrete structures more than 2 m thick. A hell for Ukrainian defenses, which lost more than 1,000 men per day. Furthermore, the Russians use sound suppressors on light infantry weapons to foil acoustic detection systems on the ground.

"The decision to retreat by the Ukrainian armed forces was a surprise," notes this last report, highlighting "its suddenness and lack of preparation," fearing that this choice was "more endured than decided by the Ukrainian command," suggesting a possible onset of "disarray."

"The Ukrainian armed forces have tactically shown that they do not possess the human and material capabilities [...] to hold a sector of the front that is subjected to the assailant's effort," continues the document. "The Ukrainian failure in Avdiivka shows that, despite the emergency deployment of an 'elite' brigade – the 3rd Azov Air Assault Brigade –, Kiev is not capable of locally restoring a sector of the front that collapses," alerts this last report.

What the Russians will do with this tactical success remains to be seen. Will they continue in the current mode of "nibbling and slowly shaking" the entire front line, or will they seek to "break through in depth"? "The terrain behind Avdiivka allows it," signals this recent document, also warning that Western sources tend to "underestimate" the Russians, themselves adept at the practice of "Maskirovka," "appearing weak when strong." According to this analysis, after two years of war, Russian forces have thus shown their ability to "develop operational endurance" that allows them to wage "a slow and long-intensity war based on the continuous attrition of the Ukrainian army."


Couldn't paint much more of a grim picture. That western forces have been completely mismanaged, that Russian forces and equipment are proving superior on the relevant wartime fronts like engineering and reliability and electronic countermeasures, that Russia is keeping reserve forces and rotating troops properly, that Ukraine is not. In particular, it talks about how dwindling Ukrainian troop levels are being complemented by non-uniformed western forces, US/British/French forces already fighting in Ukraine behind the front lines. Their internal report says Ukraine was losing 1000 men per day in the defense of Avdeevka and the new glide bombs like the FAB-1500 are just proving an overwhelming advantage.
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Mar 12 2024 10:53pm
It was 2 weeks ago that the Ukrainian 110th, the brigade that was fighting at Avdeevka, publicly announced it was 'going on an extended rest' while a 'rotation can be established'
These leaks show that Ukraine is unable to rotate troops and the 110th was suffering 1000+ troops lost per day, so it backs up the claim the 110th was completely obliterated
Also reinforcing the claim that the retreat from Avdeevka was not signaled and was a total rout as troops broke ranks. It was conspicuous that the public announcement only came after all the footage emerged of troops fleeing
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Mar 12 2024 11:11pm
And might as well throw in, this phone call between Macron and Putin from 4 days before the invasion is trending;



An interesting exchange around 3 minutes in. Macron brushes aside the demands of the separatists and says that in a sovereign country laws are proposed by democratically elected authorities not separatists. Putin directly rebukes him and says Zelensky's regime is not a democratically elected government, that they came to power by a coup d'etat, that people were burned alive (the Odessa incident). Putin firmly demands that both sides be given a voice at any negotiations and the DPR/LPR be at the table. Macron simply blithely responds "We don't care about the separatists proposals"

Here you go Macron, here's your war. You asked for it, you got it, you fucking lost it.
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Mar 12 2024 11:12pm
Barbaric animals at it again.




Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 13 2024 05:14am)
French Newspaper Marianne claims to have been leaked high level confidential defense reports on the Ukraine war
https://www.marianne.net/monde/europe/guerre-en-ukraine-endurance-russe-echec-de-la-contre-offensive-ce-que-cache-le-virage-de-macron
https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1767562336452440422
ouldn't paint much more of a grim picture. That western forces have been completely mismanaged, that Russian forces and equipment are proving superior on the relevant wartime fronts like engineering and reliability and electronic countermeasures, that Russia is keeping reserve forces and rotating troops properly, that Ukraine is not. In particular, it talks about how dwindling Ukrainian troop levels are being complemented by non-uniformed western forces, US/British/French forces already fighting in Ukraine behind the front lines. Their internal report says Ukraine was losing 1000 men per day in the defense of Avdeevka and the new glide bombs like the FAB-1500 are just proving an overwhelming advantage.


grim ? You means like a grim clown ? :rofl:
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Mar 12 2024 11:52pm
Quote (Goomshill @ 13 Mar 2024 05:14)
French Newspaper Marianne claims to have been leaked high level confidential defense reports on the Ukraine war

https://www.marianne.net/monde/europe/guerre-en-ukraine-endurance-russe-echec-de-la-contre-offensive-ce-que-cache-le-virage-de-macron
https://twitter.com/RnaudBertrand/status/1767562336452440422



Couldn't paint much more of a grim picture. That western forces have been completely mismanaged, that Russian forces and equipment are proving superior on the relevant wartime fronts like engineering and reliability and electronic countermeasures, that Russia is keeping reserve forces and rotating troops properly, that Ukraine is not. In particular, it talks about how dwindling Ukrainian troop levels are being complemented by non-uniformed western forces, US/British/French forces already fighting in Ukraine behind the front lines. Their internal report says Ukraine was losing 1000 men per day in the defense of Avdeevka and the new glide bombs like the FAB-1500 are just proving an overwhelming advantage.


are you afraid the Russians will come for you next?
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Mar 13 2024 12:42am
A country of 143 million people taken over by crooks is bad news. We are pretty much in a 2nd Cold War.

Besides, people like me have better things to do than countering lies spread by Russia sympathizers, so these voices will dominate any discussion. It doesn't make them right.

This post was edited by Ashirgo on Mar 13 2024 12:45am
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Mar 13 2024 01:39am
Quote (Ashirgo @ Mar 13 2024 07:42am)
A country of 143 million people taken over by crooks is bad news. We are pretty much in a 2nd Cold War.

Besides, people like me have better things to do than countering lies spread by Russia sympathizers, so these voices will dominate any discussion. It doesn't make them right.


One of the big problems is the first step theory aswell. Countries aren't proactive in their countering of misinformation, so instead, malicious actors can gish-gallop out thousands of fake theories and articles an hour and in some cases the spaghetti sticks to the wall, they just have to be first.

Go through the thread and look at the hundreds of articles of misinformation that have ended up in here, some maliciously, some without intent. Much can be said about the west, but the massive propaganda operation of the east is well documented and it's obvious some people in here are so deep in the trench they will never get out.

This post was edited by Hobbiks on Mar 13 2024 01:40am
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Mar 13 2024 01:54am
Quote (Hobbiks @ Mar 13 2024 04:39am)
One of the big problems is the first step theory aswell. Countries aren't proactive in their countering of misinformation, so instead, malicious actors can gish-gallop out thousands of fake theories and articles an hour and in some cases the spaghetti sticks to the wall, they just have to be first.

Go through the thread and look at the hundreds of articles of misinformation that have ended up in here, some maliciously, some without intent. Much can be said about the west, but the massive propaganda operation of the east is well documented and it's obvious some people in here are so deep in the trench they will never get out.

How do you know you aren't just deep in a trench of western propaganda? You know western propaganda exists right?

Who came up with the first step theory btw?

This post was edited by DizzyBusiness on Mar 13 2024 01:55am
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Mar 13 2024 02:22am
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Mar 13 2024 08:54am)
How do you know you aren't just deep in a trench of western propaganda? You know western propaganda exists right?

Who came up with the first step theory btw?


Who said I wasnt? Media theory is very clear on the fact that the western media (because of its profit interest which is tied to capitalism which is tied to state actors) essentially creates a hegemony where the biggest newspapers avoid topics or frame topics in a different way. I think it's hilarious that you think this was some sort of slam dunk because nobody disagrees with this, even in the "woke" stronghold that is academia. I also think its funny that you ask me questions like "you know western propaganda exists" when i have quoted more propaganda theory then you have read in your life, in this very thread. Everyone from Elluls to Jowett & O'Donnell agree that propaganda exists everywere, in every state and functions in different ways.

The stark difference and contrast between western propaganda and eastern propaganda is:
1) Western propaganda is heavily criticized from media and rhetorics scholars and academia in the west. In the east the same is not true, if you criticize internal propaganda structures and hegemony there are severe punishments.
2) The west does not use computational propaganda (which is malicious by intent) to the same degree as countries in the east. If you want sources on how the algorithm functions proactively to not allow for Russian independent media to become viral on websites like Yandex then i'd love to provide them. This is not the case in the west, where alternative media faces hardships and is disincentivized in different ways than the state making it impossible to see on your news feed.
3) The state involvement in media is completely different in for instance Russia than in France, Norway or even the US. In Russia during Soviet times there was a direct line from the Kreml to the big media outlets and the state owned media channels, after Soviet collapsed this line was removed. The direct line was reinstated under Putin and there are weekly meetings every thursday setting the agenda for the next week in terms of state affairs. This is unprecedented in any western country. Even a layman knows this.

Who "came up with" something is completely uninteresting to me. What is interesting is how it's being discussed in terms of propaganda in the war between Russia and Ukraine (which is what the thread is about). There are fantastic articles by among others Roman Horbyk about first step theory, inocculation theory etc. Again, if you are interested i'll gladly teach you about it and send you the links.
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