Quote (ferdia @ Apr 10 2022 09:27am)
I would actually side with fender on this point. people should be allowed to protest. they are not allowed to in russia, which to my mind is a problem. they are allowed to in the west, which has advanced various ideologies. I accept that some of those ideologies are questionable but that is seperate and distinct from being allowed to voice a view in community / protests.
remember im not taking sides, and the only reason i am jumping on fender outside of this post is because he is purposely trying to silence opposing views in the thread. Even fender will sometimes have valid points.
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Apr 10 2022 09:32am)
Agreed. Freedom of speech is of paramount importance. Simping for an authoritarian regime just because it happens to crack down on the people or ideas that you dislike is a stupid, unprincipled and ultimately self-defeating stance.
Quote (fender @ Apr 10 2022 09:43am)
what about your edit? doesn't change anything about what i said. the US has no right to invade cuba, bomb their cities into the stone age, murder their civilians, and destroy their infrastructure just because they don't want them to join a defensive alliance they don't belong to. you're finally getting my point. they might have their reasons that they don't want it, and one can argue if those reasons are valid or not, but it doesn't change the conclusion.
militarily superior nations not strong-arming / threatening or invading their neighbours in order to advance their own economic / territorial / strategic goals is the whole point of alliances like nato. it's to PREVENT military conflict and every country having to be armed to the teeth, and if you look at nato's record in that regard, it's pretty good at achieving that.
look, i know you can't stop being dishonest, but our disagreement on issues was NOT what i told you to stfu about, that's simply a lie. in fact, i repeatedly encourage you to get back on topic and discuss the issue. what i DID tell you to stfu about is constantly making insulting posts ABOUT me without even addressing the topic. huge difference.
i'm starting to see where you're coming from. pro tip: you're not "obliged" to "suck and swallow" anything. it's your personal decision to do that. whoever told you that you have to "suck and swallow" their stuff is in the wrong if you don't enjoy it. you're perfectly free to not participate - it really is that easy.
in russia, people don't have that choice. they live in a dictatorship. pootin has been murdering / imprisoning / censoring dissent for decades now. the russian people are constantly bombarded with propaganda and fake news. they are actually forced to "suck and swallow" whatever pootin wants them to. guess you made your choice after all... it's not the "sucking and swallowing" that bothers you, it just that you prefer to "suck and swallow" pootin's stuff. you could move there, you know?
Sadly for all three of you there are nations that don't agree with you. So what you're gonna do, go to war against nations that don't agree with you???
Do you ever think why certain nations are developing nuclear weapons while the process is so costly and troublesome?? Right. They don't want woke "progressive" ideas take over their territory.
I'm completely right, pushing your own politics and demanding that all other nations should suck it up is not only reckless but sheer stupidity.
And fender can go to hell trying to twist my arguments into "Pootin bootlicker" your're fucking nuts.