Quote (Djunior @ Mar 11 2024 03:21pm)

Exactly

I said that because you were trying to spin this by calling users who pointed out NATO is involved conspiracy theorists.

I hope you've seen the light and will do better

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 11 2024 03:28pm)

1 Country has been at war for 93% of the time it has existed. If there is no enemy, it creates one. It has Israel in the middle east doing its bidding and it has Pakistan slowing India down while it contrives to wreck China. It is busy all over the world creating conflicts, under the false notion that this will stop any country from directly attacking it. hint: either way no one is going to attack it. The most dangerous enemy if has, is itself.

Russia is a convenient enemy so, over the course of a number of years, Russia was provoked into a war with Ukraine. Biden even gave Putin the green light to invade Ukraine. The plan, as we now understand, was to collapse the Russian economy and gobble up Crimea.

Is this all propaganda or is there a hint of truth?

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 11 2024 02:15pm)

i don't disagree with anything you said here. my only response is: if 99 ppl say one thing and 1 person says the opposite, that does not mean that the 99 people are right and the one person is wrong. The Mearsheimer position (that nato expansion was foolish and a recipe for disaster, and we should all note the position is from 2016, it was not dreamt up after the 2022 invasion) is born out by the maps of the ukraine war and the fact that Russia has not conscripted an extra 5million men (to invade and lay claim to all of ukraine).

Russia has created a land bridge to Crimea, Putin has laid claim to everything east of the dniepo river, and russia has not conscripted the men required to invade all of ukraine, much less poland and germany.

It is for this reason the argument of the mainstream just does not add up to me. the presumed narrative makes no logical sense.

Quote (Djunior @ Mar 11 2024 02:27pm)

Going to respond to this bit here

Up to this day you refuse to acknowledge that NATO welcomed Ukraine and Georgia back in 2008 while I have posted the official NATO source numerous times. How could you miss it?

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 11 2024 11:42am)

Ukraine was clearly a very divided country, east and west, Ukrainian or Russian speaking.
Geography is obviously a factor in that, the legacy of the Soviet Union and historic closeness/cultural similarity.

Actually though after 2014 Ukrainian nationality was far more clear and together in opposition to Russia annexing Crimea and fueling separatism.

Anyway, can you describe what you think the presumed narrative is?
And maybe what it doesn't make logical sense.

Quote (Gala @ 11 Mar 2024 17:35)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chechnya

Part of Chechnya declared independence after the dissolution of the soviet union. Russia did not recognize the independence and forced it back into its sphere of influence with 2 wars. Since the installment of the Kydrov clan, Ramzan and his father Mufti Akhmad have been subjected to severe human rights violations by different organizations, suppressing any opposition and restoring control over the region for Moscow.

Overall Russia is one of the most diverse countries on earth with over 193 ethnic minorities.

Quote (Norlander @ Mar 11 2024 11:54am)

But where's the invasion? If I claim independence from Russian Federation will the arrival of a psychiatric ambulance be considered an invasion of my sovereign territory?

Quote (Norlander @ Mar 11 2024 02:54pm)

But where's the invasion? If I claim independence from Russian Federation will the arrival of a psychiatric ambulance be considered an invasion of my sovereign territory?

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 11 Mar 2024 18:06)

Wow, arguing semantics over the destruction of grozny. Twice. Quite pathetic really.

Quote (Hobbiks @ Mar 11 2024 03:36pm)

Propaganda is "[...] a consistent, enduring effort to create or shape events to influence the relations of the public to an enterprise, idea or group" according to the father of PR, Edward Bernays. How do you mean that I've been propagating to you?

NATO is not "involved", and you have not proven anything that is not already known. NATO countries provide aid, as they are sovereign nations. There is no NATO donation fund as you seem to believe lol.

Apparently what you guys meant when you said NATO is involved is that the US sends grenades to Ukraine. Apparently what the US does as a sovereign state is now a NATO action, just a very confused worldview.