What a surprise

That is not equal to going to war, no. If you think aid spent on weapons or sending weapons equals the donator being a part of the war then China and North Korea is in a war with Ukraine right now. Again, no serious political figure would ever even humor such an insane statement.

NATO and the EU standing behind Ukraine is not equal to being part of the war. If you think standing behind another country equals being part of the war then Belarus and Myanmar are part of the war with Ukraine. Again, no serious political figure would ever even humor such an insane statement.

"Your whole appearance in this topic today is a complete fallacy." - Im uninterested in your ramblings about fallacies, while your first response today was in fact a fallacy. Take it somewhere else little guy.

" You bust in here accusing users of building conspiracy theories while all the evidence is against you." - You have a theory about a conspiracy. You have been asked multiple times to provide evidence, and you have not been able to. Either you or ferdia are incompetent at this point or you are willing enablers, trying to justify the unjustifiable.

No Nato member is directly at war with Russia. However, Nato is officially supporting Ukraine in their conflict with Russia and is, for the most part, following the lead of the United States. It has made no attempt at a negotiated peace and is complicit. The United States is, to use a term, semi covertly, at war with Russia, using Ukrainian soldiers as their Proxy. It is coming to light the extent to which the United states is involved, and has been involved over the last 10 years (in Ukraine). Several Nato countries have made it clear that they will not send troops to Ukraine while several Nato countries have floated the idea of sending troops. It is clear that the US is providing Ukraine with as much information "intel" as possible related to Ukraine and Russia, to help Ukraine kill Russians. The US is arming Ukrainians, supplying intel, training, providing weapons and geo-political protection, a bit like what they are doing in Israel. Without US support Ukraine would be goosed. It is clear that the US is of the view to send long range weapons to Ukraine (in order to strike targets in Russia or Russian controlled places, say Crimea, Moscow). I believe the US still believes that Ukraine can achieve a victory - i.e. retaking crimea, but it is my belief that Russia would not countenance this. Therefore as with last year, no political decision, stuff still has to happen on the battlefield.

If Nato was a defensive alliance, it should not have sought to bring Ukraine into Nato, as they knew it would provoke a response from Russia. I am not talking about right or wrong I am talking about cause and effect.

Non-front lines cities are barely touched though. Sure some like Odessa, Dnipro, Zap, etc. get the occasional missile strikes against weapons depots or grain hangars, but generally speaking life goes on.

If I was a 17 year old boy in Ukraine in any of these cities, I'd be infinitely more scared of military commissars rather than missiles.

Do you have proof that he did not provide evidence?

Again, the war in Ukraine doesn't meet the definition for a proxy war even by your own admission. If the US is actively participating in war efforts then it is not a proxy war. You have to pick one, and even then it would not meet the definitions of a proxy war.

Countries in NATO are sending aid to Ukraine, that does not mean NATO is a part of the war. Ukraine is a sovereign nation and can decide for themselves if they want to join NATO.

"asthey knew it would provoke a response from Russia." - The world does not revolve around Russia. If Russias response to Ukraine making their own decisions is a full scale invasion then Russia is in the wrong, you do understand this, right?

You have moved the goalposts considerably. We talked about NATO being involved in Ukraine not about a declaration of war.

If you want to include NK or China I will immediately say sure, those countries are involved.

I'm not going to twist myself into a knot over something that's obvious to all. See what I did there?

Do better man

Again, this is not what has been discussed previously. Actors like CIA, for instance, were mentioned at first. I have already responded to this allegation. Sorry you didn't understand it.

So to be clear: NATO is not involved in the war? State actors are sending aid, but these countries are not at war with Russia, correct? NATO is not in Ukraine fighting a war, agreed?

I agree there's no declaration of war.

However NATO is fully committed to support Ukraine for as long as it takes therefor NATO is involved.

I see no other way to spin this

I feel it would be more worthwhile to figure out how it is that new users to the thread are able to ignore all the evidence which supports the notion that the US is escalating the war, ensuring it continues, and refuse to accept the notion of spheres of influence. It is quite frankly odd that there is no concern about escalating a war with a nuclear armed opponent yet expecting that opponent to lose. baffling.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 11 2024 08:09am