, can you lend me a white flag? I give up to read this conversation between the mutes and the blinds

This post was edited by Norlander on Mar 11 2024 06:29am

Yeah it's wild. I'm gonna post this image and be done with it

this guy lives in his own little bubble, hopeless case

I just try to understand what is your motive to make Ukraine look like a country of Nazis sympathisers and a EU puppet state. And the only explanation I have is to justify the invasion in Ukraine which is the topic of this thread.
Perhaps I’m mistaken here and follow the wrong logical path. But you are clearly following a pro Russian narrative.
I don’t say it is necessarily smart for Ukraine to apply for NATO membership but I can’t refute the argument of NATO saying that any state (including Russia who also once seeked ties with NATO) is allowed to maintain relations with them. That is a trademark of an independent state, like it or not.



To be fair the Russian population would never have allowed for an invasion if they had a say in Russia. The Russian regime led by Putin is responsible, although it cannot be said the Russian population is entirely innocent, same as the Germans have not been innocent of the atrocities committed during WW II.



I respect that. I will have to try and understand your arguments on Ukraine in a different light then.



Thanks for taking time to provide me with sources.



I just think that when you take your time to give me a response I should consider what you write and try to provide what I can to answer to it in a respectful manner.
I don’t ask you to read it if you don’t want to.



First of all I want to thank for the effort of providing me the link to the use cluster ammunitions by Ukraine by HRW.
The article states up to 12 incidents with at least 6 people killed and dozens wounded. Now it also mentions that some of these rockets have been malfunctioning, falling to the ground shortly after they were launched.

I don’t want to refute your argument but this article alone does not prove that Kyiv has been bombing Donbass regions for 8 years. The article was published in late 2014, making this one of the first documented violations in Donbass which by that point had become a war zone with conflict parties including Russia and Ukraine.

I also don’t see the logic in the fact that Russia claims that Ukraine would be systematically suppressing people of Russian culture in that area. There is a separate topic of accusations of genocide in Donbass. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accusations_of_genocide_in_Donbas
According to the UN Comissioner of Human rights about 6500 Russian proy forces, 4.400 Ukranian forces and 3,404 civilians were killed during the fights in Donbass from 2014 onward.
Now if we had to find a legilization for the argument of a genocide on the Russian minority in Donbass we’d have to look before 2014.

„Immediately after the 2014 Revolution of Dignity in Ukraine, armed Russian proxies declared the independence of the two regions, triggering the war in Donbas. At the same time, the pro-European government in Kyiv began to gradually use the Ukrainian language to replace the dominant position of Russian in Ukraine.“

So we can see a struggle for power in this region with Russia on the one-hand side and Ukraine on the other. Now there is no way anybody could say the Russian minority in the Donbass could have pulled this off on their own, they have been armed and also supported by Russian mercenaries, erupting in a conflict.
Ukraine tried to counter act with measures to increase the Ukranian independency in those Regions, which Russia took as an argument of genocide, russophobia, and so on.

Likewise, the baltic states see themselves confronted with the same problem right now: Russia is threatening them because the Baltics want their Russian minority to either learn their own language or move out of the country in fear that they would serve as legitimate targets for an invasion.




This comment from Stoltenberg is very clear that NATO will support Ukraine in their defense against Russia.
According to the UN charter (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Self-defence_in_international_law) every country has the right to defend itself.

There is no threat against Russia, no provocation. Yet Russia keeps attacking Ukraine. And deliberately so civilian targets to weaken the morale of the Ukranian population.

I mean its there to be read, thank you for supplying the visual aid. Jens Stoltenberg is unhinged and dogmatic in his determination to see this war escalate.

It's very interesting that both of you have this concrete evidence but you refuse to send it. Idk, as said, maybe we are just different. I think providing evidence and sources is important, especially if it's something that could potentially change an entire geographical region because of the scope of it. You don't and thats fine.

"Why do you think Ukraine is desperate now that it hardly receives any 155 mm standard caliber NATO ammunition?" - NATO also breathes air, does that mean Ukrainians are in NATO because they breathe? You asked me a question about grenades, when you got a response you didnt want you just moved on, like an NPC. Its chocking really, the mental gymnastics.

Bruh do you have a condition....

NATO "backing Ukraine" is not the same thing as being in a war. China and North Korea are backing Russia, are they in a war?

Just to be clear, the best evidence you and can find is an unrelated quote by Jens Stoltenberg? Not too surprising. I expected better from ferdia but not from you, honestly. Do better.

Its very interesting that you are able to ignore all the evidence freely available on line, but here we are.

The US Funds the war in Ukraine and ensures that there is no peace. The US provides Ukraine with the Intel it needs to better defend itself. The US has been in Ukraine for more then 20 years and became actively involved since before the US coup in Ukraine in 2014. Long Range Missiles and capabilities (F16's) are now being supplied to Ukraine.

The United Kingdom has troops in Ukraine
France is mulling over sending troops to Ukraine

you can say thats all conspiracy theory all day long but that does not mean I have to believe you.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 11 2024 07:05am

Well tbh Jens Stoltenberg in his role as NATO chief is just NATO's mouth piece right

I mean we can be sure that before such a statement there's a lot of talk and all members must line up behind that statement

get this guy, he is being fallacious! I bet you wont stand for it.