I believe it would be helpful for your contribution to the topic, to read over what has already been proven. There is simply too much evidence to refute your position sorry.

"You're moving the goalposts. No one talked about a declaration of war, we talked about NATO involvement in Ukraine." - Something you 1. Can not prove and 2. was not exactly what Ferdia was talking about earlier. I don't know if you're so deluded that you think you are another member of the forum, but we've not only talked about NATO, we also talked about CIA, Stay Behind and specific states. Literacy issues again?

"The spy satellites alone is proof of that. " - This is not what being in a war means, unless your limit for war is any sort of support, meaning that China and North Korea are also at war, but with Ukraine. Its a bar so low that no serious official would ever even consider it. It's the opinions of a layman.

"You can even call them combatants" - No you can not. They do not fit into that definition. Can you explain what you think an enemy combatant is?

"NATO is involved up to their eyeballs" - But you cant prove it? Just seems strange to me that you can't even show me how NATO is engaged in warfare if that is the case. All the examples you have given fit perfectly into things that are not part of warfare.

"And here you are, calling people who point that out conspiracy theorists" - I mean you have a theory about a conspiracy. If you want to provide evidence I have asked it of you multiple times, but you seem uninterested or incapable of providing it.

So just to be clear, you refuse to provide evidence of your claims? I'm not saying that as to be rude, I just want to make it very clear.

Im sorry, did you not see the links posted yesterday? i refer to my previous comment.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/25/world/europe/cia-ukraine-intelligence-russia-war.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Black_Sea_drone_incident
https://responsiblestatecraft.org/cia-ukraine-russia/
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2024/mar/04/british-soldiers-on-ground-ukraine-german-military-leak
https://theconversation.com/british-troops-operating-on-the-ground-in-ukraine-what-international-law-says-224896
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2024/02/28/british-soldiers-help-ukraine-fire-missiles-olaf-scholz/
https://www.politico.com/news/2023/12/12/white-house-ukraine-intel-declassified-00131296
https://news.usni.org/2022/03/18/intel-sharing-between-u-s-and-ukraine-revolutionary-says-dia-director

there have fun reading all that.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 11 2024 06:24am

The NATO weapons alone is evidence

Quick reminder:

I'll take that as a yes. I wonder if is going to call you a bad faith actor now, considering it is improper debate decorum not to provide evidence for a claim when asked.

I just think its super strange that there is this MASSIVE conspiracy that you guys have uncovered but you cant even be bothered to prove it to other people. Doesn't make much sense to me. If i had that type of bombshell information I would try to make it known to as many people who were interested as possible.

there are ample links provided from the get go in this thread, and i provided multiple links above for you to read. if you want to ignore them, go ahead.

Make up you mind though, am i a bad faith actor for providing links, or for providing links that are not palatable to you ?

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 11 2024 06:25am

The US provided those arms to Ukraine. Do you unironically think that a state loses its power to sell weapons to other countries if they join NATO? If France sells a weapon to Denmark does that mean that NATO is selling a weapon to NATO? States have no sovereignity to you, just like Russia thinks about Ukraine i guess.

So again, you have this MASSIVE earth shaking conspiracy and you cant even provide a few links? It just doesn't seem too plausible to me that you could prove any of this, as you haven't in the last few pages of this thread. If you had this concrete proof i doubt that you wouldn't just send it. Maybe you wouldn't? Maybe you have a secret operation with all the proof, like NATO in Ukraine?

You talk to Ferdia dude. Stop acting in bad faith

Secondly I already posted enough evidence

NATO weapons / ammo / intelligence to provide targeting data / and so on

Why do you think Ukraine is desperate now that it hardly receives any 155 mm standard caliber NATO ammunition? Asking for a friend