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Mar 10 2024 12:29pm


The Pope is all-in on the destruction of Ukraine, already declaring it a martyr.
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Mar 10 2024 12:31pm
Also footage from today shows yet another Abrams knocked out, as well as a clip going around of uniformed UA soldiers driving in civilian vehicles to a civilian house and loading equipment inside, only to get blown up by an airstrike demolishing the house. Makes it pretty clear why no civilian infrastructure survives in the front line cities
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Mar 10 2024 12:39pm
Quote (EndlessSky @ Mar 10 2024 06:20pm)
Biden could have built a small house for every homeless person in America for that much money. Kinda sad.


Isn't that socialism?
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Mar 10 2024 12:57pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 10 2024 02:15pm)
CNN acknowledging the Patriot vs FAB 1500 arms race
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/europe/russian-guided-bomb-ukraine-frontline-intl/index.html

Russia has proven to be very adaptive. They are shifting their weapons tech mid war as the needs became clear, direct drops unusable and glide bombs a necessity. America on the other hand sent Ukraine a bunch of totally useless armor that keeps getting blown up. You hear a lot from washington about ramping up billions more in ammo, but you don't hear about plans to innovate to counter the current threats


To counter the Fab-1500 glide bombs they need to be able to hit the planes further out ~60-70km behind enemy lines. Article talks about Patriot basically being one of the few systems able to do so at that range. The problem:

Quote
a newly produced PATRIOT battery costs about $1.1 billion, including about $400 million for the system and about $690 million for the missiles.


So very quickly you start to run into cost problems. Even if the launchers/radar battery and other support components aren't touched, each Patriot missile costs $4MM. But of course they will lose some of these launchers. Very expensive and for very little to no quantifiable benefit to the US, to basically throw billions at the wall hoping the Russians just kind of one day decide to go home.
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Mar 10 2024 01:25pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 10 2024 06:57pm)
To counter the Fab-1500 glide bombs they need to be able to hit the planes further out ~60-70km behind enemy lines. Article talks about Patriot basically being one of the few systems able to do so at that range. The problem:



So very quickly you start to run into cost problems. Even if the launchers/radar battery and other support components aren't touched, each Patriot missile costs $4MM. But of course they will lose some of these launchers. Very expensive and for very little to no quantifiable benefit to the US, to basically throw billions at the wall hoping the Russians just kind of one day decide to go home.


You have heard of the military industrial complex right?
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Mar 10 2024 01:29pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 10 2024 03:25pm)
You have heard of the military industrial complex right?


Of course, but saddling the US taxpayer with billions in extra debt so shareholders can collect more profits is cannibalistic. Thin of it this way. 100 billion in infrastructure or subsidies to buy EV's or fill in the blank tends to have a tangible and evident benefit to the average person in the US. 100 billion in munitions made and shipped off is not value producing.
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Mar 10 2024 01:34pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Mar 10 2024 02:15pm)
CNN acknowledging the Patriot vs FAB 1500 arms race
https://www.cnn.com/2024/03/10/europe/russian-guided-bomb-ukraine-frontline-intl/index.html

Russia has proven to be very adaptive. They are shifting their weapons tech mid war as the needs became clear, direct drops unusable and glide bombs a necessity. America on the other hand sent Ukraine a bunch of totally useless armor that keeps getting blown up. You hear a lot from washington about ramping up billions more in ammo, but you don't hear about plans to innovate to counter the current threats


Very good point you brought up. It was unveiled a couple of days ago that Russia successfully copied boeings glsdb's. They call it UMPB D-30SN (Universal'nyy Mezhvidovoy Planiruyushchiy Boyepripas) which means Universal Interspecific Glide Ammunition. This situation is a prime example of why nato is so hesitant to send western tech to ukraine; russians are excellent at reverse engineering hardware.

The article you linked describes pretty accurately the dire situation Ukraine finds itself in, this war is an arms race and nato can't even keep the pace with north Korea. The Russian airforce is starting to act with impunity; downed su-34s will become irrelevant if Ukraine doesn't get more shit and fast
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Mar 10 2024 01:41pm
Quote (zorzin @ Mar 10 2024 08:34pm)
Very good point you brought up. It was unveiled a couple of days ago that Russia successfully copied boeings glsdb's. They call it UMPB D-30SN (Universal'nyy Mezhvidovoy Planiruyushchiy Boyepripas) which means Universal Interspecific Glide Ammunition. This situation is a prime example of why nato is so hesitant to send western tech to ukraine; russians are excellent at reverse engineering hardware.

The article you linked describes pretty accurately the dire situation Ukraine finds itself in, this war is an arms race and nato can't even keep the pace with north Korea. The Russian airforce is starting to act with impunity; downed su-34s will become irrelevant if Ukraine doesn't get more shit and fast


The Chinese and Iranians are good at reverse engineering stuff too.

It was reported that captured Javelins were sent to Iran and China.

Nice testing ground turning into a nightmare
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Mar 10 2024 01:59pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 10 2024 07:29pm)
Of course, but saddling the US taxpayer with billions in extra debt so shareholders can collect more profits is cannibalistic. Thin of it this way. 100 billion in infrastructure or subsidies to buy EV's or fill in the blank tends to have a tangible and evident benefit to the average person in the US. 100 billion in munitions made and shipped off is not value producing.


Partially valid.
However for the most part they don't send brand new equipment. They make new euipment which the US military then keeps, having sent the older supplies.

Also the US defence budget is about 800 billion, per year.
How many people do you think the US defence industry employs? Directly or indirectly.

Also a factor is the potential cost of future conflicts as a result of not supporting Ukraine or Israel today.

Do you think a war involving NATO in Estonia or Moldova would cost more or less than 60 billion?
What about an expanded regional conflict between Israel and Iran?

Doing nothing can also be very, very costly going forward.
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Mar 10 2024 02:07pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 10 2024 03:59pm)
Partially valid.
However for the most part they don't send brand new equipment. They make new euipment which the US military then keeps, having sent the older supplies.

Also the US defence budget is about 800 billion, per year.
How many people do you think the US defence industry employs? Directly or indirectly.

Also a factor is the potential cost of future conflicts as a result of not supporting Ukraine or Israel today.

Do you think a war involving NATO in Estonia or Moldova would cost more or less than 60 billion?
What about an expanded regional conflict between Israel and Iran?

Doing nothing can also be very, very costly going forward.


Lmao.


>Cost of future conflicts if we do nothing.

As if this has any bearing on future conflicts. Tell me what impact spending 10 trillion on Iraq, Afghanistan and Syria had on future conflicts? Neocons are so funny in their framing. 1984-esque framing of war is peace nonsense. Always fear peddling.

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