d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1403440354036403740384519Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 19,872
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,512.50
Warn: 10%
Mar 9 2024 01:08pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 9 2024 06:06pm)
A recent poll commissioned by one of the two national German public broadcasters (think of a German equivalent to the BBC) found that Germans reject sending Taurus cruise missiles to Ukraine by a 59-34 margin, so chancellor Scholz is actually acting in line with public opinion by denying the calls to supply Kyiv with them. Also shows that this is yet another issue on which public opinion and published opinion diverge.

https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/politik/politbarometer-taurus-ukraine-100.html



e:

Well, what this poll shows quite clearly is that there is no appetite for ramping up our involvement in this conflict beyond the current level.


Sure, but that is an assumption based on a poll. So while it has merit it has obvious limitations.


Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 9 2024 06:33pm)
It doesn’t matter what the German, American, whatever other western country’s public wants, politicians lie and then move the goal posts.

I still remember when Biden explicitly said we won’t send f-16s and look where we are.


Situations change and politicians react accordingly. Its not really a complex idea.
Hitler annexed the Sudetenland and it was presumed that he was appeased. A year later they invaded Poland.

Quote (ferdia @ Mar 9 2024 06:56pm)
it was a Yes or No question, again, feel free to ask your own yes or no questions.



and the same for long range missiles.



im not sure on this, what i do know is that the US tripped their tanks of the most up to date armor before sending then to Ukraine, because they didnt want Russia to get the technology.



by "our" i presume you refer to German involvement? indeed scholz even went on air and said this in the last week.


Ok.

Not a yes or no question, but how do you see the war in Ukraine ending?

Quote (Djunior @ Mar 9 2024 06:58pm)
Holy shit Prox1m1ty wiped out again, lol

"NATO is a defensive alliance and has nothing to do with this" :rolleyes:

https://i.imgur.com/bJ4SXNz.jpg


https://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/04-april/e0403h.html




https://i.imgur.com/r5pXxaD.jpg


Not a very mature contribution, unsurprisingly. Yes defensive alliances add members. Like Finland, like Sweden.
Especially in the face of perceived or literal aggression.

If you want me to respond again to your posts which by continually quoting me I gather you do, then I suggest you upgrade the level of maturity in your rhetoric; If you are in fact capable of that.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 9 2024 01:13pm
Member
Posts: 52,426
Joined: May 26 2005
Gold: 4,404.67
Mar 9 2024 01:12pm
Quote (ofthevoid @ 9 Mar 2024 19:33)
It doesn’t matter what the German, American, whatever other western country’s public wants, politicians lie and then move the goal posts.

I still remember when Biden explicitly said we won’t send f-16s and look where we are.


Scholz has been reluctant and "Ukraine-sceptical" from the get go though. I still remember a press conference in 2022 where he was standing next to Biden, Biden said "our goal is that Ukraine wins this war", then Scholz very deliberately saying "our goal is that Ukraine doesn't lose this war". He comes from a historically Russia-friendly party and his stance throughout this whole war has essentially been "we want to give Ukraine the bare minimum that it needs to defend itself, but nothing more".
Member
Posts: 37,931
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
Mar 9 2024 01:12pm
Member
Posts: 19,872
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,512.50
Warn: 10%
Mar 9 2024 01:15pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 9 2024 07:12pm)
Scholz has been reluctant and "Ukraine-sceptical" from the get go though. I still remember a press conference in 2022 where he was standing next to Biden, Biden said "our goal is that Ukraine wins this war", then Scholz very deliberately saying "our goal is that Ukraine doesn't lose this war". He comes from a historically Russia-friendly party and his stance throughout this whole war has essentially been "we want to give Ukraine the bare minimum that it needs to defend itself, but nothing more".


Pledging to send helmets was the writing on the wall for Scholz. Who is this leader of the opposition that gave a speech this week in Stuttgart?
Member
Posts: 26,542
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 20,065.00
Mar 9 2024 01:18pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Mar 9 2024 02:12pm)
Scholz has been reluctant and "Ukraine-sceptical" from the get go though. I still remember a press conference in 2022 where he was standing next to Biden, Biden said "our goal is that Ukraine wins this war", then Scholz very deliberately saying "our goal is that Ukraine doesn't lose this war". He comes from a historically Russia-friendly party and his stance throughout this whole war has essentially been "we want to give Ukraine the bare minimum that it needs to defend itself, but nothing more".


You have to ask yourself how can a country continually do the opposite of what it's key politicians said in the past, what most of the populace wants, year after year. To me it's evident that's not a real representative democracy, and in reality some other forces are running the country. It's evident in a lot of countries in the west, and we're throwing stones from a glass house when talking about Russian, Chinese & other autocratic countries. In reality, our ruling class is just a lot better at hiding the autocracy and selling a false notion of democracy.
Member
Posts: 46,759
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 22,164.69
Mar 9 2024 01:38pm
Quote (Norlander @ Mar 9 2024 01:12pm)


what is he, some kind of bleeding heart peacenik who spouts off nonsense about turning the other cheek?
Member
Posts: 14,745
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
Mar 9 2024 01:39pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 9 2024 08:08pm)

Not a very mature contribution, unsurprisingly. Yes defensive alliances add members. Like Finland, like Sweden.
Especially in the face of perceived or literal aggression.

If you want me to respond again to your posts which by continually quoting me I gather you do, then I suggest you upgrade the level of maturity in your rhetoric; If you are in fact capable of that.


Clearly I didn't respond to you, I responded to Ferdia. Now that you're explicitly asking I will respond

Despite the fact that NATO insists (yes insists) that Ukraine becomes a NATO member you perform mental gymnastics at the highest level and formulate some complete drivel that NATO hasn't got anything to do with this.

Laughable



Member
Posts: 4,750
Joined: Feb 5 2022
Gold: 11.11
Mar 9 2024 01:58pm
Quote (Norlander @ Mar 9 2024 02:12pm)


Ahhhhhh
That's why France wants to put boots on the ground
The pope is gonna make the ukranians fly the national French flag
Member
Posts: 37,931
Joined: Nov 16 2005
Gold: 13.37
Mar 9 2024 02:00pm
Quote (zorzin @ 9 Mar 2024 22:58)
Ahhhhhh
That's why France wants to put boots on the ground
The pope is gonna make the ukranians fly the national French flag


Exactly
Member
Posts: 51,691
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 7,914.00
Warn: 10%
Mar 9 2024 02:11pm
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 9 2024 07:08pm)
Sure, but that is an assumption based on a poll. So while it has merit it has obvious limitations.




Situations change and politicians react accordingly. Its not really a complex idea.
Hitler annexed the Sudetenland and it was presumed that he was appeased. A year later they invaded Poland.



Ok.

Not a yes or no question, but how do you see the war in Ukraine ending?



Not a very mature contribution, unsurprisingly. Yes defensive alliances add members. Like Finland, like Sweden.
Especially in the face of perceived or literal aggression.

If you want me to respond again to your posts which by continually quoting me I gather you do, then I suggest you upgrade the level of maturity in your rhetoric; If you are in fact capable of that.


------------

This was the Yes/No Question:

Nato is a military alliance who supports and encourages it members to send weapons to Ukraine, Yes or No ?

Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1403440354036403740384519Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll