Nato members are individual countries and they are supplying lethal aid to Ukraine. Do you agree with this statement ? Where do you think the F16's are coming from?

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 9 2024 11:10am

As I said in my post

"Saying countries that are also in NATO are supplying weapons would however be accurate."

NATO is an entity that has its own budget and capability. You can check online what it is providing from this resource.

Wtf lol

You know you can't convince people they don't see what they see with their own eyes, right?

ok so lets forget about Nato. The countries that make up Nato, are sending weapons to Ukraine, Yes or No ?

"Individual NATO member countries are sending weapons, ammunition and many types of light and heavy military equipment, including anti-tank and air defence systems, howitzers, drones, tanks and fighter jets. Allied forces are also training Ukrainian troops to use this equipment. All of this is making a difference on the battlefield every day, helping Ukraine to uphold its right of self-defence, which is enshrined in the United Nations Charter."

https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/topics_192648.htm

If the countries that make up Nato are supplying the weapons, as agreed under Nato, then I would contend that your position that "Nato" is not sending weapons is word play. I provide the above link for reference purposes, and yes that link mirrors your comments. Is it that if you agree with the statement that Nato is supplying weapons that it erodes the position that Nato is no longer a defensive alliance? is that why you have taken this position? Supply weapons to Ukraine does not undermine the statement that Nato is a defensive alliance. The fundamental issue with Nato is that they are expanding into another sphere, aggressively, (via political means, and as highlighted in the link above Nato endeavors also fall within the political arena) and this undermines the position. in my opinion.

If countries identify as Nato countries, then they are Nato, and therefore Nato supplies weapons. That is my position. Otherwise Nato should tell its members not to supply weapons as to do so makes it implicit that this is part of the Nato strategy (which it is).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 9 2024 11:45am

Yep with the caveat that states sending military aid to Ukraine make sure that the missiles do not have the range to strike targets deeper within Russian territory or they are reduced in their reach before sending them to Ukraine.

As the topic has been coming up recently about hitting targets such as Moscow, according to law professor this is covered by international law.

"...that right of self-defense includes military strikes on Russian territory in order to seek to deter, prevent, repel the acts of aggression against Ukraine." Such "territory" is not limited to the front line.
It is a legitimate act of self-defense for Ukraine to actually strike very deep into Russia, including into Moscow, as long as those strikes hit military targets," Scheffer said.
"If any of those drone strikes hit civilian targets in Moscow, then that would be illegal unless it could be somehow proven someday in a court of law."

https://www.dw.com/en/ukraine-war-right-to-self-defence/a-66420497

That said we have seen major violations on both sides and it is unclear if any of those will ever be brought to a court.

There really is no law when it comes to war, just look at Israel. When Ukraine bombs Moscow we can expect to live in interesting times AKA F around and Find Out. Moscow is 500 miles from the border, it is the seat of government and that, by definition, makes it a military target, according to Ukraine. Feel free to refute or suggest what target in moscow, that Ukraine, that Nato, sorry, i mean, that the US can bomb. If the shoe was on the other foot the US would be going mental right now but here we are.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 9 2024 11:54am

Not at all. Ukraine is defending from a Russian invasion. Would you agree?

NATO is an entitty outwith the member states. I completely agree with your assertions, other than your failure to make the disctinction.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 9 2024 12:01pm

it is not clear that you have answered the question.

My Question: The countries that make up Nato, are sending weapons to Ukraine, Yes or No ?

in an attempt to get a response from you here is my response to your question:

Your Question: Ukraine is defending from a Russian invasion. Would you agree?, Yes or No? Ferdia: Yes

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 9 2024 12:03pm

My above post explains that I completely agree with your assertions.
My issue is with the rhetoric that often goes "NATO is fighting Russia"
Because that is emphatically false. Failing to make the distinction is lazy and dishonest.

You have your answer, ninja editing bold into your questions is not necessary

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 9 2024 12:04pm