Another sign for how the war is going

Azov Nazis are once again recruiting child soldiers. The Right Sector and 119th Separate Brigade have started holding small arms and FPV drone training for girls in the 14-18 year old range, so they'll be ready to mobilize. We of course know this because like I've always said, Nazis really want you to know when they're doing war crimes and shiz, and just love uploading pictures of it to the internet to show off just how warcrimey they can be. Jesus, anyone remember the white helmets in Syria? What percent of the population was disconnected from the internet, unfamiliar with social media? All their photo ops and propaganda had to pass through censors trying to actually sculpt a narrative for western audiences. Now we've got a conflict where Nazis just post pics of themselves training child soldiers and western media's only way to deal with it is to just pretend it isn't happening and tell no one about it

Formally, keeping in mind that Ukraine means a borderland and they didn't make it through

This post was edited by Norlander on Mar 9 2024 02:18am

Wall of text. You should stop adding more text it doesn't help you in the slightest and doesn't make me walk away. And stop twisting my words it's very clear what I said and it's not indirectly. I'm actually being very direct if you didn't notice.

You are simply not interested in facts, you're emotionally involved because you know people from Ukraine which doesn't mean anything because we are talking about geo-politics. The powers involved here are a Western block that wants Ukraine absorbed into NATO and a giant in the East that wants to prevent that. Surprise: that has nothing to do with me or what I say. What do you not understand??

The sources I posted are 100% clear and exactly what I claimed namely high ranking Western officials speaking at Maidan Square.

Now go to Russia and tell them that means nothing at all, it's not a concern, the West can do what they want because Russians bad, your "standards" are higher because you have rainbow flags or whatever and find out that they actually care and they do not accept a Western putsch in Ukraine where pro-Western puppets are installed to guarantee a smooth path into NATO and EU

I did NOT say that justifies an invasion I'm pointing out that this is how it works in geo-politics. Let me remind you the US pulls this shit all the time all over the world and I've never seen you here to condemn that. Don't call it a whataboutism or I will laugh in your face

This post was edited by Djunior on Mar 9 2024 02:32am

Please provide your sources instead of a screenshot.

I know similar sources dating to Russia, such as

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11335901/FOUR-year-olds-shown-use-AK-47s-grenade-launchers-Russian-kindergarten.html
https://nypost.com/2022/10/20/russian-kindergarteners-learn-how-to-use-ak-47s-grenades/
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/24/europe/russia-schools-pro-war-parade-grounds-intl/index.html

Or minors parading on the red square on the day of Russian victory.

Now I won't judge Russia for doing this. It just means they are militarizing their people, starting from a very young age.

I would also like to know your definition of Nazi. Is Ukraine a nazi state?
Minors touching guns makes them Nazis?

Used French gun for sale: never fired and dropped once.

Nonsense. Would be political suicide, the French wouldn’t put up with that.

I dunno, African countries tend to be unpredictable

To begin my statement I like to discuss on a mutual level and we still, for the most part, having a civilized argument, so I’ll appreciate that.
While I do realize that some of the things that are being written do require research on my behalf, I’m concerned with some of the narratives which are spread here.
I’m not here to change your mind of force anything upon you. I was just giving you links to see for your self and then you can work that in, put that against another theory.
But you stand with what you think which I ask you to provide evident sources. The only thing I get is your personal view and you don’t allow anything else. That’s fine but I can’t believe some of the things that you are writing about as long as you are not able to provide valid sources for your claims.

Nobody seems to be caring about that Russians are bombing Ukrainians on a daily basis. The only thing that I read is how concerned you are with Ukranian Azos nazis.
And simultaneously you are shying away from revealing your source. Are you afraid of something?
I want to see your bigger picture. I ask for sources that’s the only thing. Stop making claims, provide sources.



I did never tell you that, I said: Please read sources, please provide sources to claims. That’s all im asking and for most part you have failed to so.
You are saying my sources are wrong or I don’t care which is ignorant.



Let me be frank: There is hardly anything good, also with looking at history, when one country is invading another by force, killing and displacing its population. And this leaves me speechless that some people here are covering up these obvious war crimes with the argument that it was necessary for Russia to invade Ukraine.

One question I would like to ask in between is: Why doesn’t Russia allow for a neutral state and immediately annexes the states, turning the Donbass regions in Russian puppet states with Russian proxy forces being active from the first day of the war in Donbass, delivering weapons to those regions to destabilize them? The vast majority of population in those areas wants peace.
If you are falling for the argument that Kyiv Nazis have killed 50k people in the process, congratulations you have made up numbers, which not even Putin states.

I find your argument of saying: Winner takes it all, neglect the casualties and the crimes which have been committed, atrocious.



According to Russian gov, they have a lot of existential threats and I’m astounded these threats which lead to murdering a lot of people, are usually not conerned within their own state boarders but they love to travel afar and commit crimes there. Whether it be shaking up african states, murdering people in the interest of smuggling dozens of tons gold every year. Bombing people in Syria. Do you really believe that this all falls under the legitimacy of saying that russia needs to this because they have a vital interest in those areas and if they don’t do it, they are going to collapse?

To be fair Putin is afraid of free speech, he does not tolerate it.

Your argument of having existential threats in foreign countries by Russia is flawed. Russia has enough to sustain itself and much more than that. Putin is using a major part of the financial household to produce military shells and wage war in other countries. Now this is only possible because the Russian population is subdued and no free speech exists or has been eliminated by putting people in Jail for several years who just hold up a white T-shirt, because they’re only expressing that they do not agree with the war in Ukraine. Similarly women of fallen soldiers are rallying against the war, but they’re mostly from remote regions in Russia which is a strategy applied by their government to not let unrest take over larger populated areas.

Bottom Line: You seem to be fine with a much bigger and mightier country invading another country, committing as many war crimes as they want. Taking as much land as they want. This statement speaks for itself.

When it comes to the Sevastapol Naval Base it has been Ukranian territory since the dissolutions of the Soviet Union. But there has been treaties, such as the 2010 Kharkiv Pact allowing Russia to conduct their military operations up until the year 2042.



thanks for acknowledging that Russia does not accept an independent Ukraine.
I don’t have the bigger picture in geopolitics enough to judge that at present all the adjacent states to superpowers like China and the US are adherent to their will.

When it comes to Ukraine and Russia it is unprecedented in the 21st century that a country invades a neighboring country because it does not agree with its political agenda and thus starts an invasion. We’re not in medieval times anymore.



Thank you for making it quiet clear what your statement is. I will take it and thouroughly check it. Ask Ukranians and Russians alike about it.



Yanukovich was elected democratically, but made a u turn, engaged in corruption, censoring media and incarcerating politicians. This is what sparked the protests. And this was not just a few Ukranians protesting, but hundreds of thousands in Kyiv alone at that time.
At that point when he orderd to shoot over 100 protesters on Maidan he became unbearable, even for his own political party and close political allies.

Now I do acknowledge that Selensky alike is said to have connections to oligarchs. He’s not risen to power all by his own.
My baseline argument is that you cannot take a sovereign country by force just because you feel like it. Putin did not engage in diplomacy anymore but simply launched scale invasion.



What de the west exactly do?

The first elections held after the Maidan protests was 2014 presidential election where Poroshenko won. When it comes to voting in eastern Ukraine, namely Donetsk, it was stated by the Central Election Commission of Ukraine, that illegal actions of unknown people occurred in those regions. The elections took place about a month after Russian mercenaries entered Donbass.

Please provide further evidence and sources here. I would like to know what exactly happened in this violent coup you describe.




The party of regions was banned in 2023, rather recently. There have been criminal cases against its members who fled to Ukraine in 2014.
I haven’t taken a closer look into these juridical processies, so I cannot comment on these.

After Maidan happened 36 out of 38 deputies of party of regions voted to oust Yanukovych.



Please provide sources



I don’t call your theory hypothetical, neither do I want to change your mind. But clearly Europe does not troops on the ground in Ukraine, it is Russia.

Now I still want you to provide sources and evidence that Maidan protests were a violent coup organized by the west and not the people of Ukraine.

I can’t stress often enough that Yanukovich, while generally being a pro Russian politician (in fact he spoke no Ukranian as he rose to power as prime minister in 2002) was trying to open to west as well, which he later reverted, making this a major part of the reason why protests erupted.

„It appeared that Yanukovych was attempting to pivot toward the West in April 2013, when he ordered the release of Lutsenko in advance of the signing of an association agreement with the European Union.„
https://www.britannica.com/biography/Viktor-Yanukovych

I also would like to remind you that Russia used violence when Yushchenko was poisened to the presidential elections in 2004.



I will check this out at a later point in time because I don’t want to give an uninformed statement here. Thanks for providing names.



I think neither of us is entitled to speak for Ukranians.

Last year, according to sources, the support to continue the war amongst Ukranians was shrinking to to 60%
„While most Ukrainians support fighting until the war is won, that majority is shrinking. Last year it was 70%, and this year it is 60%.„

https://www.voanews.com/a/new-poll-reveals-how-ukrainians-feel-about-war-future/7303180.html



Donbass and their regions was and ist part of Ukraine. Russia is invading it with military force.



First of all it’s not my junta.
Any referendum in Crimea and the Donbass regions has been staged after Russian mercenaries invaded those regions. Ukrainian national symbols have been removed, Russian propaganda radio and television is aired while no Ukranian media is allowed.
They are censoring internet services in these regions, just like they do in mainland Russia.



Fair enough it’s your opinion. And this will lay ground for any invasion to be legitimate as long as the invaders are on the winning side, no matter if the invasion is justified or not.



These Ukranians territories you are talking about are occupied by Russia who invaded, displacing and killing the Ukranian population.



I don’t want you to walk away. I want you to stay and make meaningful arguments. You posted 4 sources, claiming that that would be enough of a reason Russia to invade Ukraine. I say that’s wrong.

I don’t have issues writing text, you don’t have to read it if you don’t want to. But engaging in a meaningful discussion requires a certain of input from my point of view. I think we have made our points clear and I do respect your position although I do not share it.



I told you that I know both Russians and Ukranians and neither are agreeing with the war in Ukraine nor would they with any of the visions you have been trying lay out here.

It’s pretty important to know people of a country to understand them. Their history and background are also very crucial. Granted is necessary to interweave that with geopolitcs.
In Ukraine we are not talking about geopolitics anymore. We are talking about an unprovoked invasion of a sovereign country.



Yes they are clear and there is no indication of any sort of violent takeover of a country which is presently happening in Ukraine by Russia.



The Ukranian parliament, even members of his party couldn’t take Yanukovich any longer because made U-Turn from his original plans to build up a pro European relationship. That’s what stirred up protests. Not the west itself. They didn’t have to do that. The Ukranians felt betrayed by Yanukovich’s reversal.

I would have loved Ukraine to prosper as a state having both relations to their western and eastern partners, especially because Russia is so influential within the region. But Putin despises the west and he cannot tolerate any relations whatsoever. He wants to install a puppet regime which even John Mearsheimer agrees to.



When there is no arguments you love to point fingers at other states. I do not agree with any sort military intervention the US has committed within the late 20th or early 21st century. But I’m not aware of USA annexing a neighboring country. I’m not talking proxy wars here.

Your arguments obfuscate the fact that the Ukranian population did have the intention of a democracy which is not present in Russia in comparison. The president of Russia is afraid of any kind of democracy, especially adjacent to him, he has been eliminating any opposition in his country. The only opposition existing is appointed by him to convey an impression of a political system where elections exist. Realistically there is no other choice to be had than Putin and his regime. That’s why millions Russian fled the country in the past couple of years.
And the Russians abroad do not want to be forcefully integrated into the Russian hemisphere. Not a single Russian I know wants to go back to their country because there they are treated like shit.

And if you say that Donbass had elections to vote for independency, they are just as fake as Russian elections themselves. They were staged after Russian invasion of the regions took place.

I can go to Baltics for eyample. They have a Russian minority. It’s a democratic country. But they are afraid facing the Russian agression. If it not be for NATO, it is not unlikely that considering the agression and threats by Russia, that we would see an invasion there too.

This is shotgun approach where you are literally looking for a gotcha moment. Ultimately the US broke the status quo and here we are.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 9 2024 07:39am