No you can't, I just gave you a quick summary of the articles I posted to you. Please comment on the facts in the articles instead if you don't feel like my take isn't authentic to you.
It is evident that Russians are constantly committing war crimes in Ukraine.
I just love how you keep denying that while I say I do acknowledge that there is also war crimes on Ukranian side.



I can just repeat I have no intend of complimenting America's foreign efforts which also include war crimes and failures. I never denied that. This topic is solely on Ukraine.



So according to your narrative it is legal to invade a country, kill and displace their citizens as an act of war?
But giving the means to Ukranians to defend themselves is not? Remember Ukranian soldiers are killing Russian soldiers who are invading their country.
Don't get me wrong I'm not advocating to prolong this war any further. In fact if Russia didn't start it to begin with, we would never had a war in Ukraine.

Which Russian city was bombed by Ukranians? I'm still waiting for you to provide evidence but instead you provide a picture which only shows Mariupol which has previously been destroyed by Russians.

This post was edited by Gala on Mar 8 2024 04:56pm

Nope. This is PARD, nobody is going to read articles you post, nobody is going to watch videos TiStuff posts. You might as well shout into the void or talk to a wall. If you want to make an argument, make an argument.



Weird because there's about 4030 pages of this thread where I'm pointing out war crimes on both sides of this conflict and talking about how its the norm in eastern european wars, and a pretty good running tally of evidence of war crimes.



And any argument premised on Ukraine having some sort of moral high ground, or just describing one side of the conflict as bad guys, is completely and totally negated by the fact Ukraine is employing literal nazi war criminals in the year of our lord twenty twenty four
Which begs the question of why any American should support sending heavy weaponry to said nazi war criminals just so they can lose a proxy war that is actively undermining American hegemony and the petrodollar



According to my narrative the only authority on whats 'legal' under international law are the winners. We invented the whole concept of crimes against humanity at Nuremberg for some of that victor's justice, and I hope we set a precedent of being self-aware about it.
Russia intervened in Ukraine in response to America intervening in Ukraine. Its simple cause and effect. The status quo ante was Ukraine as a unified, stable and legitimate democracy, one that aligned with Russia and had some decent measure of sovereignty. The Maidan overthrew that and sparked a civil war, disenfranchised over half the country and necessitated a Russian reaction to protect their interests and their people. Western Ukraine became a vassal state of western powers, transparently puppeteered by the CIA and Brussels, losing whatever sovereignty they used to have in the Russian sphere of influence. Russian-aligned oligarchs were replaced by CIA agents, and Russia wasn't going to tolerate that intrusion into their back yard.

What I said 10 years ago was that Russia is more willing to act to protect their interests in their sphere, than America is willing to invest to seize it. It was a simple calculation then, and it proved true in dramatic fashion.



America isn't giving Ukrainians the means to defend themselves, we're giving them the means to sacrifice their lives and bleed Russia in a losing war, losing the only defense they had- peace.
We know they are losing this war and by prolonging it we're further decimating western Ukraine, and yet we're all too willing to throw them into a meat grinder.
Which, don't get me wrong, doesn't really bother me. I'm all for cynical geopolitics when its in our favor. Its the fact that we're actively undermining our own interests that makes this particularly boneheaded.



Did you forget to put in your contact lenses for the past 10 years and Mr Magoo'd your way around this whole time? There was a 10 year siege of the DPR/LPR with artillery barrages on both sides, followed by an invasion and hot war in which Ukraine has expanded beyond bombing just the separatist Russian regions but also Russian mainland proper like Belgorod.

TLDR, i trust you dealt with it Goomshill.

You're not willing to engage in a constructive argument process based on facts, that's your loss then. I can only try to provide you with substantial evidence, I don't force it upon you.
You know about 10 years ago I came across you for the first time and I thought that you were a knowledgeable person. But I have reiterate my opinion about you in a way I feel like.

You’re not disclosing as how you are making up your mind nor what sources you are using and this is dangerous.



I did never deny that there is bad people on the Ukranian side, let alone war crimes being committed by the Ukranians.
Yet you will not walk away from the misleading argument that Russia is doing good in Ukraine when all they do is invade another country which they have been doing so numerous times in recent history.
This is neo-imperaliasm and the only faint argument you brought up with how well Russia doing in Mariupol with construction work is atrocious considering what they have done to the Ukranian population in this area.

You have been accusing me of saying „Slav bad“ while you don’t seem to realize that Ukranians and Russians both belong to the East Slav populous subgroup.



According to your narrative, everything is legal as long as you're winning. Good luck with that. Stalin the "winner" already killed a couple million people of his own kin.



Here you go, enlighten me as to why Russia had to respond to a boosted Ukrainian country supposedly threatening the Russians with the aid of the USA. Are you believing in the proclaimed weapons of mass destruction that Ukraine and the US where supposedly using?

I’m very surprised that some people in this thread are falling for Russian propaganda.



Please define what sovereignity means to you? Would you say that Belarus is a sovereign state in your eyes?

As I wrote in a previous statement, but I'll gladly do it for you again, Ukraine was about to align to Europe which was the reason why Yanukovich was initially elected. Then Yanukovich turned away from his initial position, causing uproar within the population, this lead to protests which became violent and on Yankuvochis order, over 100 protesters were shot down. This lead to the Ukranian government ousting him. And he fled to Russia where was preparing to overtake the elected Ukranian government after Russia killed the Nazis in Kyiv. That was the plan.




All the independent sources state that the uproar in the conflict regions in Ukraine have been sparked by Russian mercenaries, calling themselves separatists. The DPR had a former Russian FSB agent as their defense minister.



Name me one sovereign state within the russian sphere of influence.



Russia wasn’t going to tolerate an independent state moving away from them, that’s true. That’s why they have to kill the Ukranian population. And because they will be victorious, they will be in the right.
Please be so kind and name me one CIA agent who replaced a russian-aligned oligarch.
This argument reminds me of Russians claiming that highly decorated military officials from western countries would be present on the battle field which has never been proven.
They only engaged in the training of Ukranian soldiers, not in the active combat.



Ukranians have any choice to forfeit any day, yet they keep asking for more weapons because they know that if they lose this war, there will be no more sovereign Ukraine on the map.
This is brutal fight which should never have been and that solely Russia is responsible for.

Putin remains a liar by stating he won’t invade Ukraine, yet he did so. The Russian apparatus is a machine of false information, not only concerning the war in the Ukraine. It’s pretty easy to prove them wrong in many cases yet you seem to be legitimizing major crimes on the Russian side, which is surprising considering you are American and have access to independent sources.




Yes you’re right, Russian mercenaries invaded the sovereign regions belonging to Ukraine in Donbass region. They heated up the conflict with military equipment which you have been condemning on the side Western countries at present.
But it is all too legitimate that Russia keeps erasing Ukranian cities for no reason because they’re going to be victorious and it’s their right according to your narrative.

According to wikipedia and per Russia, 13 civilians have been killed in the Belgorod Oblast incursions.
And while any person killed in an act of war is one too many, compared to an estimated 400k killed in the Russo-Ukranian war, this intervention is not a measurable threat to the Russian state whatsoever.




I have been checking the source you provided. Several sources state, referring to the Human Rights International Report, that during the Donbass war, Cluster Ammunition was used on both sides. While doing so, civil casualties will likely be the consequence.
The mere use of cluster ammunition is a war crime. I wasn’t aware that Ukraine had those before the delivery by the US in 2023.

I have however not found any source proving that there were 50k civilians killed by the Ukranian military during the Donbass war.

I hope friendo is getting paid for the wall of texts, otherwise damn what a waste of breath

I thought people would stop talking about war crimes and moralism in this topic after the israeli-gaza war, lol.

If you want to look at complete disregard for human lives, look there. 2 million people, 30k+ civilians killed in a few months.

War crimes have happened in ukraine, but on a very very small scale.

This post was edited by ownyaah on Mar 8 2024 08:04pm

When you try to tell people what to do and how to think, do you find much success?



And there you go again with the 'doing good' or 'atrocious'. Again, trying to frame moral arguments.
See how that isn't constructive yet?



Manufacturing artillery and FPV drones and armor wins wars. Manufacturing a narrative about international law doesn't.
You seem to mistake the point here, the point is that winning is winning.



Don't need to burn entrails and scry the bones to figure out what's going on in Putin's mind when he talks about it openly in every speech and interview.
Russia responded to America seizing control of its sphere of influence right up to its back yard, which would remove its last NATO buffer state, lose its black sea port, lose access to critical food and natural gas and oil and mineral resources and the manufacturing of east ukraine and set a precedent for America wresting away Russia's sphere of influence by color revolutions. It couldn't be more obvious that Russia was absolutely not going to tolerate that and was forced to respond, at a minimum by seizing control of Crimea that hosts its naval port. Seriously this is like asking why the US stationing first strike jupiter missiles in Turkey led to a standoff with the USSR, they had to respond, we made it into an existential threat.



The Ukrainian people had a unified representative democracy, their own self-determination. Russia tolerated its independence because it aligned with Russian interests. That's the best limited sovereignty any country living in the shadow of world powers can hope for in the modern age, it applies the same to every country under the US or China's sphere of influence. They got to live by their own laws, because they represented a majority pro-Russian population. They no longer have that. Their government is simply a puppet of the western powers, a vichy regime for west Ukraine, and after a civil war there's neither representation nor jurisdiction over east ukraine. The people in the DPR/LPR/Crimea have more representation as they're folded into Russia than the cannon fodder being enslaved as they try to escape west ukraine.



All the Ukrainian propaganda sources I read agreed with that too! I can link you to a bunch of KyivPost and EuromaidanPress links to support it!
Meanwhile, back in reality, the Maidan disenfranchised half the country
Let me repeat that in bigger, bolder letters, the Maidan disenfranchised half the country
I don't need links to 'sources' to point out self-obvious statements of fact. The people of Ukraine had a legitimately elected representative democracy. The more populous eastern oblasts outvoted the less populous western oblasts and elected a pro-Russian candidate, and the west staged a violent coup d'etat to remove him from power and install their own government, ban the party of regions, lock up dissidents and journalists and priests. They held sham elections where nobody in the east voted, yet still claim dominion over them. Saying they disenfranchised the east is like saying Beria violated civil liberties.




We'll throw that into the magical land of hypotheticals of what could have happened if America and Europe had actually let a movement for a pro-western Ukraine reach critical mass so Russia would feel necessary to intervene first to suppress it
Instead of overthrowing a democracy when it votes for the pro-Russian guy.



Joseph Cofer Black started as a CIA agent, became a CIA director, and then became Vice Chairman of Blackwater, and then was installed on the board of directors of Burisma after the CIA seized control of Ukraine and Zlochevsky was groveling to his new masters and paying bribes to the Biden family.
Yes, they weren't being subtle about it, they just straight up replaced the Russian-aligned oligarchy with a CIA-aligned oligarchy and plundered the country just the same.


Looked liked about 36 Ukrainians crammed into that vehicle trying to escape the conscription agents who stopped them and forcibly enslaved into their army.
I'm sure they'd love to tell us about the choices they had and how represented they feel by their new sovereign democratic ukraine.




"Belonging"? When did the DPR/LPR/Crimea ever "belong" to the post-Maidan regime? Manufacturing narratives about international law doesn't win wars. Trying to come up with tortured legal arguments for why your revolutionary junta that overthrew a democracy is legitimate, doesn't give it control over the regions it cannot hold. The Donbas doesn't belong to western Ukraine because the revolutionaries only overthrew the government in Kiev, they never conquered the east.

I don't know how many times I can say this same thing before it starts drilling its way in, winning is winning. Russia is winning the war. Western Ukraine never won the territories it lays claim to, it never held them for a single day since the revolution. Russia won them. Putting up a banner that said "Mission Accomplished" didn't work for baby bush, it won't work for Biden.

This post was edited by Goomshill on Mar 8 2024 08:54pm

Putin leeches are sick.

What did you think was going on in this video clip?:



I'll give you a hint, everyone in the video is Ukrainian.

They were trying to win the world record for most ppl in a van, but they forget to tell george, paul and simon, who went bat shit crazy FOMO ?