The clown who said that Russia will win this war in 3 months ? GL BOZO

In the American revolution, a foreign king who refused to allow any representation for the colonies was overthrown for local democratic government that laid claim only to the lands it represented. The war was fought exclusively by revolutionaries committed to the cause, and nobody was pressed into service. The fact that the british pressed men into service against their will to serve in their navy was one of the proximate sparks for the civil war and explicitly stated as a grievance in the proclamation of independence. As the founding fathers laid out;

• He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected; whereby the Legislative powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.
  
• He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution, and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended Legislation:
  
• For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.
  
• He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging War against us.
  
• He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall themselves by their Hands.
  
• He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages, whose known rule of warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.

The American founding fathers railed against free men being pressed into service, against war crimes, against taxation without representation.
The Maidan overthrew a legitimate representative democracy to hand the governance of the country over to foreign tyranny. Their war is being fought by men pressed into service against their will, captured in their attempts to escape their doom. Their armed forces routinely commit war crimes. And worse of all? They're going to lose. Because that's what matters at the end of the day, the American founding fathers fought a winning war. Pretty much the last time the french did too

Do these men look like they want to die for NATO's ambitions?;



This post was edited by Goomshill on Mar 8 2024 12:47pm

I am not sure if it was intentional but i see what you did there.

with brevity, by most western accounts, there were over 50K casualties in eastern ukraine prior to Russia's invasion. Wiki & co. estimates this at 15k dead and between 35-55k wounded, various other articles say these figures are highly conservative. the fact is that over 1M people fled eastern ukraine, to russia, during the period 2014-2022. and more went westwards. now one can argue killed and casualties all day long but it is a fact that Ukraine bombed its own people for 8 years and when noting this includes bombing cities, using cluster munitions and what we know of Ukraine's views of their minorities (read; Ethnic Russians) which again, was linked in the topic in the last week, I find it difficult to move from my position of the scale of the 2014-2022. If this puts me at odds, so be it.

As Djunior said, whether is 1k or 10k or 100k dead this is not something we will ever definitively know but if you want to say your right and im not on this issue, have at it.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 8 2024 12:53pm

1/ Only 1/3rd of Americans supported the "american revolution"
2/ France helped it for some "freedom" but also because it was not possible to allow Brits to own such a massive piece of land.

Your funding fathers were for the most big slavers & plantation owners who wanted to increase their power, the story ends here.
It's pretty sad.

Ukraine is getting destroyed and smart people (not you obviously) predicted that from the beginning of the conflict. That it didn't happen in 3 months is only because of unprecedented Western aid which is now running out because the combined West cannot keep up with that "gas station"

And for all users who read this, quick reminder of this ass clown and why he's shilling for NATO



Jesus Christ...

We don't have to continue this any further. You don't believe it's a genocide, I do.
I told you what are the conditions that need to be fulfilled in order for crimes to be a genocide and they are very well accomplished in Ukraine. I provided you with the relevant information.



So what you are saying is that because Georgia, Ukraine and NATO have cordial relations, Russia is allowed to whipe them off the map? Kill elderly, children and rape women? What kind of person are you?
NATO is a defense alliance and due to Russian aggression it has grown.

I had the same discussion with InsaneBobb couple days back and I stated that Yanukovich was ousted by the Ukranian parliament because he lost all backing within the Ukranian population because he killed over 100 protesters and this led to violent protests. Please refer to my earlier posts I provided the evidence there.

I know Georgian people and Georgia is a very prominent country to take young Ukranian refugees because they do not want to live in their country of origin anymore.
Georgia is a peaceful country, yet Russia has invaded a part of Georgia whatsoever for no valid reason.

How many Russians did the West kill?
And your argument that NATO provoked Russian to invade other countries is complete nonsense. Welcome to Russian propaganda world.

And yes I want your sources




I don’t agree with you. You claim that 50k civilians were killed by Ukranians in the Donbass war. There is not a single source to back this up. Let me drop some numbers here which I found

„About 14,000 people were killed in the war: 6,500 Russian and Russian proxy forces, 4,400 Ukrainian forces, and 3,400 civilians on both sides of the frontline. „

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas

The armed conflict in Eastern Ukraine started in 2014. Between then and early 2022, it had already killed over 14,000 people.

https://www.crisisgroup.org/content/conflict-ukraines-donbas-visual-explainer

Even Putin claims a number of 14k people so I don’t know from where you get that 50k.

I found the claim of 50k civilian deaths in post https://forums.d2jsp.org/topic.php?t=92094408&f=119&p=658634607 but there was no link for any evidence provided and I couldn’t find any number as nearly as high as that. So yes, please, provide your evidence.



I have watched hundreds if not thousands of reports from the war in Ukraine and I'm spreading out to as many different media outlets as I possibly can.
False information is and consequently will be an issue. And I'm not a friend of the pro Ukranian bias either.
Feel free to give me any source you like and I will check it.
As stated in a different post, I do not possess any sort of almighty wisdom, I also make false claims but I do expect from people that they are doing their own research.

Concerning your narratives:
Starting with Narrative 1:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Annexation_of_Crimea_by_the_Russian_Federation
Russia's reason for the invasion of Crimea: "Defence Minister Sergey Shoygu said the country's military actions in Crimea were undertaken by forces of the Black Sea Fleet and were justified by "threat to lives of Crimean civilians" and danger of "takeover of Russian military infrastructure by extremists"."

I do not agree with this statement. If you don't please provide your evidence.

I'm not 100% certain if it was unprovoked or not, but Russia is usually making things up to justify an invasion. The above statement does resemble exactly that.
All in all yes Russia attacked Ukraine unprovoked. Otherwise please hand me the plans by Ukraine to invade Russia.

Putin stated that he wants a great Russian Empire again so yes his actions can be summarized under neo-imperialism

"Putin has made no secret of his desire to revive Russian influence throughout his country's former imperial domains, and has publicly lamented the fall of the USSR as the “disintegration of historical Russia under the name of the Soviet Union.”"
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/putins-dreams-of-a-new-russian-empire-are-unraveling-in-ukraine/

He will not invade Germany, Poland and Russia are not on good terms though. Most of the Russian warfare is political, spy activities, hacking.
Before Russian invasion of Ukraine the world didn't want to believe that Russia would seriously do it. Yet they did.
Putin is a liar.
https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-crisis-putin-says-military-drills-purely-defensive-and-not-a-threat-as-western-leaders-warn-invasion-imminent-12545284

Narrative 2:
The funny thing is that every time a government in eastern Europe is not pro Russian it is declared a western puppet regime by Russia.
Here's what Wikipedia says and I agree with it: "Some of his own party voted for his removal. On 24 February 2014, the new government issued a warrant for Yanukovych's arrest, accusing him of being responsible for the killing of protestors. Yanukovych went into exile in Russia, claiming to still be the legitimate head of state."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viktor_Yanukovych
I don't believe the voted parliament who ousted Yanukovych was a western puppet regime. Sure they all have interests but the reason why he was ousted (he moved away from trade negotiations with the EU for which he has been initially elected) is plausible.
It might well be that Putin saw his interests in Russia/Crimea at danger so he started an operation to claim Crimea. The genocide from Ukranians against Russian minorities is a hoax and I'm still waiting for anyone to provide any relevant evidence here. I still debate the shelling of eastern Ukraine by Kyiv but I will thoroughly check your and other sources as well.
As a matter of fact Russia has invaded an independent Ukraine and anybody saying otherwise is straight up delusional. Nobody would consider Ukraine a threat to Russia.
And yes Ukraine has received billions in military aid, particularly to protect their people and their country from the Russian invasion




Okay I briefly checked the link you provided here and I will do further research as if these statements can hold true, especially considering that you stated tens of thousands were killed by cluster ammunition which I highly doubt since Ukraine has never possessed such an arsenal of cluster munition.

But here you are already contradicting yourself by stating that 50k civilians were killed when the numbers from Wikipedia say up to 14.400 deaths, which includes military personnel.

Casualty numbers are all over the place which is why I said "thousands" (couple pages back) instead of a number

Trolls like Meanwhile would just seize the opportunity to respond with another number and engage in a spam fest for pages on end

And the American revolutionaries did not press loyalists into service. The American government folded loyalists freely in as citizens and they became a significant political faction, the Tories, who joined with the Federalists. As opposed to the Maidan government, who rounded up a bunch of pro-Russian protesters a few months after the Maidan and burnt them alive in Odessa. See the difference?




Yeah France wasn't doing anything bad to brown people at the same time

The only "respectable revolutionnaries" were eventually the american intellectuals like Benjamin Franklin, even if he was a slave owner at some point.
You think you can compare the scale of slavery in-between France and America ?

Whatever this is not the topic: At least you were not enslaving your own people like the russian shithole...

I never said that it's allowed to wipe them of the map stop engaging in bad faith, your wild accusations have no effect on me anyways, I'm not even Russian dude so hold your horses

What I'm pointing out is that the present conflict is a result of Western (US) foreign policy and if you think for like two seconds you can figure it out. This is about geo-politics not about your feelings (I'm repeating myself)

If the West basically thinks that you're entitled to absorb Ukraine into NATO and the EU while the West and East are historical enemies since the could war then they're delusional.

Unless Russia would be a gas station without nukes and unable to put up a fight, in that case the B52's would've carpet bombed Moscow just like the West bombs third world countries into submission and no one would give a shit.

You want sources that I mentioned, ok lets go

NATO welcoming Georgia and Ukraine back in 2008, NATO summit in Bucharest https://www.nato.int/docu/update/2008/04-april/e0403h.html

Western officials speaking at Maidan Square Kiev 2014

John McCain




Another youtube link (can only embed one) --> Guy Verhofstadt https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rQnXo2HMriQ&t=15s

And Victoria Nuland in Kiev, Maidan Square --> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L2XNN0Yt6D8

You wanted sources, you got them so I expect you'll watch those short clips and reply here

This post was edited by Djunior on Mar 8 2024 01:19pm