@bold he never said committed by Ukraine. Stop being dishonest


This is old footage, battle for Donetsk airport. You can find this stuff too why do we need to spoon feed it to you

You can see the helicopters at work right at the beginning of the video and I don't think the rebels had helicopters

He said „50,000+ dead between 2014-2022. cluster bombed by kyiv“ which means to me that Kyiv (aka Ukranian Gov) ordered to bomb 50k people with cluster ammunition. That’s the only claim that I would like to see evidence for, no dishonesty here.
Another contradictory point is that Ukraine did not own cluster ammunition before March 2022. Meaning that any attack with cluster ammunition must have been committed by Russia prior to that:

"In early March 2022, The New York Times reported the first use of a cluster munition by Ukrainian troops during the invasion near the farm Husarivka. It landed close to the Russian army’s headquarters. According to the report, nobody died in that strike.[13] An August 2022 Cluster Munition Coalition report noted that Ukraine has used cluster munitions in a limited capacity."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Use_of_cluster_munitions_in_the_Russian_invasion_of_Ukraine

Concerning your video the video description seems to be pretty on point and unbiased. When it comes to the war in Donbass I’m still missing the war crimes that few people blame Ukraine for or the genocide on the people of the Donbass which Russia accuses the Ukranians of.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Donbas

The war in Donbass, starting 2014, was an operation led by Russia to take control of Ukranian territory. This is made evident the fact that the group who operated in Donbass and tried to overthrow the local authorities, was lead by Russian Citizen Igor Girkin.
The so called pro-Russian separatists were in fact Russian combat veterans (“Russia only admitted sending "military specialists", later acknowledged the separatists as Russian combat veterans.“)


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igor_Girkin
"Igor Girkin was appointed to the position of Minister of Defense in the Donetsk People's Republic, a puppet state of Russia."

Let’s let that sink in for a minute. A Russian being a defense minister for an independent republic? Sounds fishy to me.

More evidence that Russia is behind the uproars in Donbass here:
https://www.cfr.org/global-conflict-tracker/conflict/conflict-ukraine

„Armed conflict in the regions quickly broke out between Russian-backed forces and the Ukrainian military. Russia denied military involvement, but both Ukraine and the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO) reported the buildup of Russian troops and military equipment near Donetsk and Russian cross-border shelling immediately following Crimea’s annexation. „

This kind of illegal annexation of territory by Russia is nothing new. They have also invaded other countries, creating frozen conflicts and stationing troops there (including Transnistria, Abkhazia and South Ossetia)

This post was edited by Gala on Mar 8 2024 10:52am

its in the link a few pages back. do u want me to get it for you ? there is also a UN report from 2021 prior to the war (re: Ukrainian attacks on eastern ukraine).

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 8 2024 11:12am

you did and i watched it

the siege of a city and civilian casualties in that process are not genocide

and that number of 25k comes straight from selensky, all estimates by somewhat believable sources are WAY lower

you probably also believe the number of 31k ukranian combat deaths......

Why dont you just state your position clearly. Do you agree that 2014 was a coup and that Ukraine bombed its own people over the next 8 years with cluster bombs. Yes or No ? I think this is a very good starting point for anyone new to the topic.
The New York Times and the Washington post, and alot of western media are, quite frankly, compromised. They do not accurately report facts.

There are 2 narratives as I understand it. They are:

Narrative 1: Ukraine was minding its own business when Russia, unprovoked, attacked Crimea. Then, some years later, unprovoked, Russia attacked Ukraine and if we dont watch out they are going to next invade poland and germany (for no reason other then imperialism).
Narrative 2: A US backed coup replaced the government of Ukraine with hand picked people (picked by the US). Russia annexed Crimea so as to (a) secure its naval base and (b) to safeguard the ethnic russians living there (more then 70%). Ukraine built up its military with billions of money from the US, while shelling eastern ukraine (who did not recognise the Kyiv government). UN and HRW both produced multiple reports on the events and Russia kept complaining. The US and Russia talked, the talks went no where, so Russia invaded. As it stands Russia has created a landbridge to Crimea and have stated their intent to claim all lands east of the Dniepo River.


This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 8 2024 11:32am

Annexation of Transnistria

"In June 1992, then Ukrainian President Leonid Kravchuk said that Ukraine would guarantee the independence of Transnistria in case of a Moldovan-Romanian union. In secret, Ukrainian authorities negotiated with the government of Transnistria with the goal of Transnistria joining Ukraine."

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria–Ukraine_relations

no one ever looks at the links i post, so here is another one, https://www.hrw.org/news/2014/10/20/ukraine-widespread-use-cluster-munitions
thanks malo

The simple fact is Ukraine bombed the bejeezus out of its own people for 8 years. millions fled, to Russia. wiki, very conservatively has the dead at 3400 civilians. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casualties_of_the_Russo-Ukrainian_War
but but ferdia you said 50,000.

ye, i did. go do your own research. dont believe me, go read it yourself.

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 8 2024 11:41am

Shockingly reasonable opinion piece in one of the biggest media outlets here in The Netherlands. Dutch newspapers calling for Diplomacy. Use Google translate.

The Netherlands goes sleepwalking into a new world war

https://archive.is/2024.03.06-111303/https://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2024/03/06/nederland-gaat-slaapwandelend-een-nieuwe-wereldoorlog-in-a4192192

sarcasm mode enabled: but this makes no sense, Russian security concerns ? why would we look at Russian security concerns? they want to invade all of Europe! is this not what we have been told for the last 2 years ? Why does Russia keep asking for negotiation and peace if they want to invade all of Europe? and why are they not conscripting more men to invade Europe, I am confused. Do you mean to tell me that Russia does not plan to invade Poland and Germany ? but we keep being told that Putin has to be stopped. my head hurts...

Someone explain why the US refuses to negotiate with Russia. I mean I know the reason but I would like to hear the fairy tale reason.
the real reason is that Ukraine currently has less then it had last year and Russia has more, and that the US and Ukraine want to dictate the terms, of Russia's "surrender" even though they are not winning. (ie. departed from reality).

Lets bomb moscow and send Nato troops to Ukraine. For democracy, for freedom! (what could possibly go wrong!)

This post was edited by ferdia on Mar 8 2024 11:56am