d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russia / Ukraine
Prev1402240234024402540264519Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Views: 290043Replies: 45183Track Topic
Member
Posts: 19,872
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,512.50
Warn: 10%
#40231
Mar 8 2024 06:52am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 8 2024 12:45pm)
Approximately 1/3 of all refugees that left Ukraine went to Russia. Millions. That’s not what a genocide looks like.


That is an incredibly illogical statement.

Holding two ideas prisoners of each other doesn't hold water.

Even more simply, what about the other 2/3?


Quote (Gala @ Mar 8 2024 12:48pm)
There is no evidence.
Link an independent media source or it's a lie.



I gave you the definition of the genocide and soon I will add the information to back it up.


They've already denied this through the teeth. Its a lost cause.
And the challenge is always proving intent, even if the outcome is clearly genocidal.

Arguing implicitly over the semantics and definition until their blue in the face. It seems its only genocide if the victims are Gazans or Iraqis.
As if they somehow cared about Muslims in far away countries, or more accurately because they are anti US, UK, Israel, West, freedom, progressivism.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 8 2024 06:55am
Member
Posts: 26,377
Joined: Apr 16 2007
Gold: 166,368.82
#40232
Mar 8 2024 06:53am
Member
Posts: 4,586
Joined: Jan 30 2021
Gold: 751.50
#40233
Mar 8 2024 06:54am
Quote (Djunior @ Mar 8 2024 01:27pm)
THIS was your question



Stop moving goalposts by changing your question when you don't like the answer that you got ;)

I do not acknowledge genocide in Ukraine because 1) This was is clearly and 100% certain PROVOKED by the West and 2) had that not happened there wouldn't be war in the first place and no civilians killed. Although it's likely Ukraine would still have sent their far right neo-nazi brigades East to shell the ethnic Russians there (as they did).

Did a lot of civilians die? Obviously yes. Is that bad? Yes. The West should've realized that this is about geo-politics and a country like Russia (which isn't a gas station you can shut down with sanctions) doesn't like their historical opponents dictating what happens on their border.


the only genocide attempt was ukranian nazis shelling ethnic russians with the intention to cleanse them

as we know from history our ukrainian "friends" are pretty experienced at that, they massacre minorities since the 1920s and actively participated in the holocaust
Member
Posts: 26,543
Joined: Aug 11 2013
Gold: 20,065.00
#40234
Mar 8 2024 06:55am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 8 2024 07:52am)
That is an incredibly illogical statement.

Holding two ideas prisoners of each other doesn't hold water.

Even more simply, what about the other 2/3?


It’s actually sound logic. If someone is trying to wipe out your ethnicity out you wouldn’t be going to them willingly. Remember in ww2 all the millions of Jews flocking to Germany and areas the reich controlled? Oh wait, no it was the opposite because those people knew that the further you got from Germany control the better chances. You guys sound like dolts labeling this a genocide tbh.
Member
Posts: 51,692
Joined: Jan 19 2007
Gold: 7,914.00
Warn: 10%
#40235
Mar 8 2024 06:56am
Quote (Gala @ Mar 8 2024 12:48pm)
There is no evidence.
Link an independent media source or it's a lie.



I gave you the definition of the genocide and soon I will add the information to back it up.


It CAN be argued, quite well in fact, that Russia committed cultural genocide (such as prohibiting language and ideas) but it the Ukraine war (which started in 2014 and which Russia joined recently) is just a war. like any other war. with war crimes. Ukraine cluster bombed its own minorities (also can be argued, genocide) for years and Russia intervened. it is what it is.
Member
Posts: 19,872
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,512.50
Warn: 10%
#40236
Mar 8 2024 06:58am
Quote (ofthevoid @ Mar 8 2024 12:55pm)
It’s actually sound logic. If someone is trying to wipe out your ethnicity out you wouldn’t be going to them willingly. Remember in ww2 all the millions of Jews flocking to Germany and areas the reich controlled? Oh wait, no it was the opposite because those people knew that the further you got from Germany control the better chances. You guys sound like dolts labeling this a genocide tbh.


Absolutely false logic. And comparing two genocidal acts is futile even infantile.

At least come up with a watertight angle like its difficult or impossible to prove intent to commit genocide.

Russian actions are evidently genocidal. The actions of refugees fleeing a warzone does not change the outcomes of the actions Russia has taken.
Member
Posts: 19,872
Joined: Apr 13 2016
Gold: 32,512.50
Warn: 10%
#40237
Mar 8 2024 07:00am
Quote (ferdia @ Mar 8 2024 12:56pm)
It CAN be argued, quite well in fact, that Russia committed cultural genocide (such as prohibiting language and ideas) but it the Ukraine war (which started in 2014 and which Russia joined recently) is just a war. like any other war. with war crimes. Ukraine cluster bombed its own minorities (also can be argued, genocide) for years and Russia intervened. it is what it is.


Probably a half truth. The crux is what is the intention or desired outcome of Russia's actions during war?

They want eastern Ukraine to be part of Russia. The outcome will be at least ethnic cleansing of eastern Ukraine or Ukrainians, or forced assimilation to being part of the RF.

The attacks on civilian infrastructure regardless if its an act of war, can have a genocidal effect or outcome.
Blowing up the damn in Kherson was essentially ecocide, it was also a strategic "act of war".

The most difficult action to explain away is the forcible removal of Ukrainian children. Essentially human trafficking. A tenet of genocide.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Mar 8 2024 07:02am
Member
Posts: 26,377
Joined: Apr 16 2007
Gold: 166,368.82
#40238
Mar 8 2024 07:03am
Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Mar 8 2024 01:51pm)
and?

russia is not trying destroy the people of ukraine, we are talking abour collateral damage and "regular" war crimes here

the number of civilian casualties is actually very low in comparison to the battlefield deaths

in almost all conflicts the civilian deaths are WAY above combat deaths, not here

btw, we dont even know who committed the bucha massacre, there are no neutral sources

however there is still the statement of that mayor or so on video from the alleged day of the massacre and everything was fine, then ukraine marched into the place

sorry, but you have fallen for the media hysteria


Sorry if you don't acknowledge that firstly any of the crimes stated are leading to the definition of genocide being fulfilled.
I sent you the documentary of Mariupol where 25.000 civilians have been killed.
The only reason that civilian deaths are not as high is because they have fled from the war zones.

Bucha was occupied by Russian forces at that time,
There are Russian soldiers who have been identified as perpetrators from Bucha in various ways, e.g. calling with the phones from their victims they had previously killed:
"A chilling pattern emerged: soldiers routinely used the phones of victims to call home to Russia, often only hours after they were killed."

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/22/video/russia-ukraine-bucha-massacre-takeaways.html
Member
Posts: 14,745
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
#40239
Mar 8 2024 07:47am
Quote (Gala @ Mar 8 2024 01:48pm)
There is no evidence.
Link an independent media source or it's a lie.


Dude the Ukies were shelling Donetsk from Avdiivka regularly (beginning in 2014)

You seem uninformed

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/jan/21/ukrainian-shelling-donetsk-shopping-area
Member
Posts: 14,745
Joined: Jun 27 2010
Gold: 100,701.50
#40240
Mar 8 2024 07:52am
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Mar 8 2024 01:52pm)

They've already denied this through the teeth. Its a lost cause.
And the challenge is always proving intent, even if the outcome is clearly genocidal.

Arguing implicitly over the semantics and definition until their blue in the face. It seems its only genocide if the victims are Gazans or Iraqis.
As if they somehow cared about Muslims in far away countries, or more accurately because they are anti US, UK, Israel, West, freedom, progressivism.


Another uninformed user, lol

Ohwait I heard you only read NATO twitter

Imagine the side you shill for shelling shopping areas in broad daylight with cluster rounds (provided by the West) and still claiming that Ukies shelling Donetsk was debunked / no proof / whatever other lies you come up with
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1402240234024402540264519Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll

© 2003-2024 d2jsp  Contact