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Apr 16 2020 05:17pm
Quote (IceMage @ 17 Apr 2020 00:46)
In other Russiagate related news...

https://i.imgur.com/2Q8lY43.png


Judge denies Roger Stone a new trial. The cult propaganda works in the minds of cultists. It doesn't work on pandemics, and it doesn't work on judges. :thumbsup:


His contribution to american politics was so unique.
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May 6 2020 05:08pm
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/06/doj-releases-robert-mueller-memo-240666
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000171-ebc4-d2fd-a9f5-efe5ebf00000

Right-wingers were after this memo for years. Nothing that interesting in it, except Flynn committed most of the crimes he was investigated for, lol.
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May 6 2020 05:54pm
Quote (IceMage @ May 6 2020 07:08pm)
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/05/06/doj-releases-robert-mueller-memo-240666
https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000171-ebc4-d2fd-a9f5-efe5ebf00000

Right-wingers were after this memo for years. Nothing that interesting in it, except Flynn committed most of the crimes he was investigated for, lol.

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May 6 2020 06:18pm
Quote (tagged4nothing @ May 6 2020 07:54pm)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_6MT_B96qA


Two anti-anti-Trump leftists? No thanks.

Flynn chose to lie to the FBI. He chose to work for Turkish interests during the campaign and transition. He deserved everything he got.
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May 6 2020 06:38pm
Quote (IceMage @ May 6 2020 08:18pm)
Two anti-anti-Trump leftists? No thanks.

Flynn chose to lie to the FBI. He chose to work for Turkish interests during the campaign and transition. He deserved everything he got.


Whether or not you think Flynn "deserved what he got", it's patently clear that the FBI set him up deliberately because they considered him a political hindrance. It seems incredible to believe anything else, at least with what we know right now.

Is that behavior that we expect out of the FBI? Should we tolerate it? I don't think this is about whether or not one likes or dislikes Flynn, it's completely unacceptable behavior by what's supposedly an apolitical government organization.
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May 6 2020 07:04pm
Quote (bogie160 @ May 6 2020 08:38pm)
Whether or not you think Flynn "deserved what he got", it's patently clear that the FBI set him up deliberately because they considered him a political hindrance. It seems incredible to believe anything else, at least with what we know right now.

Is that behavior that we expect out of the FBI? Should we tolerate it? I don't think this is about whether or not one likes or dislikes Flynn, it's completely unacceptable behavior by what's supposedly an apolitical government organization.


I don't know what "set him up" means. You'll have to explain in detail how the FBI set Flynn up.

The pre-interview notes to me don't mean that much. We don't know what the FBI was thinking. Some bullet points can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. Let's just assume they mean what the cult assumes... so the FBI was operating as they normally do with a person who was under investigation. This person happened to be the National Security Adviser to the President of the United States, and he was lying publicly about conversations he had during the transition. He lied to the VP and Chief of Staff. As far as the FBI knew, he may have been running (illegal) diplomacy without the knowledge of Trump.

For context, this is a guy who got paid by Turkish interests to lobby on their behalf while he was part of Trump's campaign, and then Trump's transition.

So agents interviewed him, and he chose to lie to them. He could've told the truth, and he could've refused to answer "sensitive" national security matters. He lied. He admitted to it in court, multiple times.

In a world where reasonable right-wingers exist, Flynn would be tarnished for his behavior. He decided to get paid by Turkey while working for a presidential campaign and transition. He didn't seem to care about Russia intervening in our election on the call with the ambassador. But 99% of you have turned into cultish weirdos who can't separate fact from fiction, so the fallback is attacking law enforcement officers who tried to figure out what happened in 2016.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 6 2020 07:07pm
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May 6 2020 08:54pm
Quote (IceMage @ May 6 2020 09:04pm)
I don't know what "set him up" means. You'll have to explain in detail how the FBI set Flynn up.

The pre-interview notes to me don't mean that much. We don't know what the FBI was thinking. Some bullet points can be interpreted in a myriad of ways. Let's just assume they mean what the cult assumes... so the FBI was operating as they normally do with a person who was under investigation. This person happened to be the National Security Adviser to the President of the United States, and he was lying publicly about conversations he had during the transition. He lied to the VP and Chief of Staff. As far as the FBI knew, he may have been running (illegal) diplomacy without the knowledge of Trump.

For context, this is a guy who got paid by Turkish interests to lobby on their behalf while he was part of Trump's campaign, and then Trump's transition.

So agents interviewed him, and he chose to lie to them. He could've told the truth, and he could've refused to answer "sensitive" national security matters. He lied. He admitted to it in court, multiple times.

In a world where reasonable right-wingers exist, Flynn would be tarnished for his behavior. He decided to get paid by Turkey while working for a presidential campaign and transition. He didn't seem to care about Russia intervening in our election on the call with the ambassador. But 99% of you have turned into cultish weirdos who can't separate fact from fiction, so the fallback is attacking law enforcement officers who tried to figure out what happened in 2016.


The investigation into Flynn was purportedly to investigate whether he was a Russian agent. We know he wasn't. We know there wasn't any evidence at the time to warrant an investigation, and we know that day-to-day FBI agents tried to close the case because of the lack of evidence.

Flynn was not charged with participating in "illegal" diplomacy. It's routine for members of the national security team to participate in advance diplomacy, but it's really besides the point. Nobody asserts Flynn was taking an illegal call, so why are you harping on this as a talking point?

Flynn was asked to talk to the agents in a casual setting. He wasn't aware he was being interviewed as a subject of a probe, and had no reason to suppose he had to be exact in his communication. The FBI made a conscious decision to avoid reminding him that he was a subject of a probe, emphasized by their forgoing of the customary "it's a crime to lie to the FBI". Afterwards, the interviewing agents themselves acknowledged that there was no apparent attempt to deceive. Flynn was answering questions off the cuff and either spoke poorly, misremembered, or perhaps lied. We'll really never know. But the reason the FBI interviewed him, the reason why they avoided contacting the Trump administration, the reason why they avoided customary courtesies in speaking with him, are all obviously apparent. As an addendum, all of his "lies" are completely innocuous. Did he have reason to lie? Certainly not because the truth would have gotten him in trouble, because it didn't. The intent was to interview him in secret, make him think it was a casual conversation, and then to use something he said to tag as a lie and prosecute him.

Was Flynn a good person? I'm not sure it matters. His alleged crimes were minor, rarely if ever prosecuted before him, and the motive to relieve him was entirely political. It's ironic that you would accuse anyone of being a cultist. You cling to tired, thin, storylines because the alternative would mean recognition that the world is a lot grayer and more complex than you wish it appeared. It's ok to take the stance that Flynn was both unqualified for his role and inappropriately prosecuted. Yet you belong to a cult, just not Trump's cult, and so that nuance is lost on you.
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May 7 2020 08:28am
Quote (bogie160 @ May 6 2020 10:54pm)
The investigation into Flynn was purportedly to investigate whether he was a Russian agent. We know he wasn't. We know there wasn't any evidence at the time to warrant an investigation, and we know that day-to-day FBI agents tried to close the case because of the lack of evidence.

Flynn was not charged with participating in "illegal" diplomacy. It's routine for members of the national security team to participate in advance diplomacy, but it's really besides the point. Nobody asserts Flynn was taking an illegal call, so why are you harping on this as a talking point?

Flynn was asked to talk to the agents in a casual setting. He wasn't aware he was being interviewed as a subject of a probe, and had no reason to suppose he had to be exact in his communication. The FBI made a conscious decision to avoid reminding him that he was a subject of a probe, emphasized by their forgoing of the customary "it's a crime to lie to the FBI". Afterwards, the interviewing agents themselves acknowledged that there was no apparent attempt to deceive. Flynn was answering questions off the cuff and either spoke poorly, misremembered, or perhaps lied. We'll really never know. But the reason the FBI interviewed him, the reason why they avoided contacting the Trump administration, the reason why they avoided customary courtesies in speaking with him, are all obviously apparent. As an addendum, all of his "lies" are completely innocuous. Did he have reason to lie? Certainly not because the truth would have gotten him in trouble, because it didn't. The intent was to interview him in secret, make him think it was a casual conversation, and then to use something he said to tag as a lie and prosecute him.

Was Flynn a good person? I'm not sure it matters. His alleged crimes were minor, rarely if ever prosecuted before him, and the motive to relieve him was entirely political. It's ironic that you would accuse anyone of being a cultist. You cling to tired, thin, storylines because the alternative would mean recognition that the world is a lot grayer and more complex than you wish it appeared. It's ok to take the stance that Flynn was both unqualified for his role and inappropriately prosecuted. Yet you belong to a cult, just not Trump's cult, and so that nuance is lost on you.


I don't recall the inspector general report claiming that the opening of the Flynn investigation wasn't properly predicated. If it says that, please show us. Otherwise, yes, it was a valid investigation.

People outside of the government aren't supposed to engage in diplomacy... that's why the Logan Act was passed. If you think they should be able to engage in diplomacy, repeal the act. It's unlikely Flynn would've been convicted of violating it since it hasn't been used in so long, but it's still a statute he violated, making his behavior illegal. Trump himself has accused people of violating the Logan Act, like John Kerry.

Flynn was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.... he's not an idiot. He chose to lie to FBI agents. The phone call with the ambassador was a very important one considering the context of the times, so it's unlikely he forgot what was said. If that was a real defense, his lawyers would've used it in court. The FBI agents not detecting deceptive body language is not a convincing argument.



Also interesting you don't even address Flynn being on the payroll of Turkey during the campaign and transition.

Great "NO U" argument at the end there.

This post was edited by IceMage on May 7 2020 08:31am
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May 7 2020 08:48am
Quote (Saucisson6000 @ Apr 16 2020 07:17pm)
His contribution to american politics was so unique.


Larry Flint of politics.
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May 7 2020 08:51am
Quote (IceMage @ May 7 2020 10:28am)
I don't recall the inspector general report claiming that the opening of the Flynn investigation wasn't properly predicated. If it says that, please show us. Otherwise, yes, it was a valid investigation.

People outside of the government aren't supposed to engage in diplomacy... that's why the Logan Act was passed. If you think they should be able to engage in diplomacy, repeal the act. It's unlikely Flynn would've been convicted of violating it since it hasn't been used in so long, but it's still a statute he violated, making his behavior illegal. Trump himself has accused people of violating the Logan Act, like John Kerry.

Flynn was head of the Defense Intelligence Agency.... he's not an idiot. He chose to lie to FBI agents. The phone call with the ambassador was a very important one considering the context of the times, so it's unlikely he forgot what was said. If that was a real defense, his lawyers would've used it in court. The FBI agents not detecting deceptive body language is not a convincing argument.

https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/thumbor/DAH2yIGyX8BmU1I4aGOYHiQB2GI=/0x28:573x328/fit-in/1200x630/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/9807975/Screen_Shot_2017_12_04_at_2.55.01_PM.png

Also interesting you don't even address Flynn being on the payroll of Turkey during the campaign and transition.

Great "NO U" argument at the end there.











/e What Trump said was true and NOT exclusive to his feelings about Flynn, today. Flynn was trapped into perjuring himself. From Trump's point of view, he HAD to fire Trump.
Now though, we know that Flynn was forced to perjure himself, by the Dems/left, so Trump can NOW forgive Flynn, now that we KNOW what actually happened.

This post was edited by Ghot on May 7 2020 08:55am
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