The women already live in those danger zones, the articles plainly explain that (for instance the woman in Colombia who started a de-mining brigade because she stepped on a dud landmine as a child). The idea isn't to ship every western woman to Ukraine to sniff out landmines, nobody has ever suggested that, the idea is that the people who are affected by landmines can also deal with them and not just by the reporcussions of those landmines (taking care of injured or dying because there aren't enough de-miners cause their men have died in war).

Living and being directly involved in danger are two different stories. I'd never send women or children to deal with dangerous stuff no matter the reason.

This post was edited by babun1024 on Mar 6 2024 06:29am

Not if you read the articles you explicitly responded to. The women in regions affected by masses of land mines (for instance Colombia and Yemen) have to deal with landmines regardless of if they learn how to de-mine or not. If your husband dies or is maimed and you are a farmer (most people affected in Colombia are farmers, some from poor native populations) then you have to start doing physical labor, which puts you at risk from land mines. By letting your kids move around the area,they are at risk for land mines. These women learn how to deal with land mines and the consequenses of them (one article states as many as 60% of all people in some regions, making women overrepresented) but they are vastly underrepresented in the work of de-mining even in countries where women make up a majority of the population. These women decide for themselves to de-mine their areas and villages, if there is incentivization then they can get paid for it, have the proper protection and serve their community.

This post was edited by Hobbiks on Mar 6 2024 06:34am

I'd say there's also a pretty good parallel to the legal nonsense that gets thrown around self-defense cases
Like if a mob of armed folks interrupted a police officer arresting someone, wrestled her to the ground and kept her at gunpoint and then shot her in the head, then claimed it was self defense because she was brutalizing the detainee.
There's so many layers of "that's not how it works"

The Ukrainian people had the ultimate recourse for a democracy still available. They were free to vote in the next election against Yanukovych. If the western cause was so popular, why couldn't they simply campaign for it? The people had no right to riot in the streets and stage a siege of the capitol, but the government absolutely had both the right and responsibility to crush the revolution and maintain order. The Maidanistas can claim they were only peacefully protesting with no intention of a coup d'etat until they were brutalized, but besides that being belied by their weaponry and militancy, the proof is in the pudding. They overthrew the government. Once they seized control, they did not move to restore democracy and the lawfully elected regime. They forced the removal of the elected President, and held phony elections with half the country disenfranchised, with no representation in the vast majority of the DPR, LPR & Crimea. The same people who only months earlier had been painting themselves as martyred by a tyrant firing on their crowds of protesters, went and 'fired' on crowds of anti-maidan protesters in Odessa and killed 48 people amid cheers from the pro-maidan mob.

Democracy is an all or nothing affair, if you overthrow a democracy and hold snap elections only in the regions that support you, you're not a democracy anymore. Not with a claim to the regions you disenfranchised, at least. Perhaps there's an argument western Ukraine now has a legitimate representation over the people of western Ukraine, but tell that to Zelensky

Tchaikovsky street in Kyiv will be renamed to Nuland street

I agree with your first part that context is super important. Im not some Kuchma or Zelensky shill and I think this topic requires quite a bit of nuance.

" They were free to vote in the next election against Yanukovych." - This is easy to say, but it's apparent to me (and atleast to media scholars) that the media was already becoming infringed upon and that there was a self censorship based on profit motives and which oligarch you worked for (usually put in power by Yanukovych). It is also apparent that the police were not just functioning as a service to protect citizens, but were actively tied to and militarized by the state, sent out at a whim to kill civilians. It is unquestionable that unarmed civilians exercising their right according to article 11 to freedom of protest were killed by heavily militarized police by an unpopular politician. You can see that as a right of the state or as a way for an authoritarian to hold on to power.

"If the western cause was so popular, why couldn't they simply campaign for it?" - They did. It wasn't like there was only Euromaidan. Parties still existed and campaigned as they had. The protests sprung up out of discontent for chosing Russia over the EU and spiraled.

"The people had no right to riot in the streets and stage a siege of the capitol, but the government absolutely had both the right and responsibility to crush the revolution and maintain order." - The protestors had the right, according to article 11 to protest, they peacefully protested until they were met by force by the Berkut. There were no injuries or reported violence on people or infrastructure until after the Berkut attack on Nov 30. If you think the state has a right to meet peaceful protests with tear gas, sticks and has the right to assault members of the international press (who were wounded and suffer even more protections than civilians) then you disagree with article 11, just like Yanukovych.

"The Maidanistas can claim they were only peacefully protesting with no intention of a coup d'etat until they were brutalized, but besides that being belied by their weaponry and militancy, the proof is in the pudding." - Yes. After being attacked on Nov 30, the following night on Dec 1, protestors armed themselves with wooden sticks and petrol bombs, both of which can be made within 5 minutes. There are 0 injuries from that day that have to do with lethal or specialised weaponry. There were police injured, but there were in fact almost 10 times more injured who were from the media (who again, have even more protection than civilians).

"Once they seized control, they did not move to restore democracy and the lawfully elected regime" - I mean you used OSCE as a measurement, and according to them there was a democratic election in 2014. Do you agree with OSCE or not, or only when it caters to your political opinion? My opinion has always been the same: The sitting government does not decide the limits of democracy and the OSCE are used to make sure elections are transparent, as such OSCE are a useful source of information (both in 2014 and in 2010).

"went and 'fired' on crowds of anti-maidan protesters in Odessa and killed 48 people amid cheers from the pro-maidan mob." - This number is misleading. 4 anti-maidan protestors died in clashes, 2 maidan protestors and 42 died in a fire. Im not here to condone civilian deaths and the fact that people are willing to beat eachother to death over a pro russian authoritarian or Poroshenko, a media magnate is beyond my understanding, but i digress.

"Democracy is an all or nothing affair, if you overthrow a democracy and hold snap elections only in the regions that support you, you're not a democracy anymore." - So just to be clear, you agree with me when i say that its an atrocity that Russia do things like "Sham elections and polls in annexed regions with no observers, laying claim to territories because of alternative history claims where they are wildly unpopular?" , yes?

Looked like a kornet atgm took it out. I fully expect Ukraine to claim another 600 su34s shot down shortly. It looks like nato technology still doesn't beat the doctrine of he who's fires first (and hits) wins.

There two tanks in the video and one is T-72, not sure. And the Abrams is taking several hits, one of them wasn't necessary as the body went to stratosphere leaving the cockpit laying still probably saving the crew. I was mistaken about the crew in the previous video.

In total 31 were delivered so that's 16% losses in a couple of days

And I thought the Black Sea fleet was underperforming

T-72B3 confirmed by MoD