Changing what specifically? They transitioned from communism to a market economy. They opened up their markets, they became intertwined in European trade. US fast food joints opened up there while western markets gorged on Russian resources.

Corruption remained, but that's an extremely difficult thing to stamp out, other countries continue to struggle with that. Social things like accepting the lgbtq agenda are also incongruent and you can't expect all to basically say yes if you want to be one of us.

All of the nations you mentioned are also solidly subservient in their geopolitics to our interests. We have bases on their land, we sell them our debt and expect them to buy it. Policy in their countries is almost never allowed to be contrary to what we want. What we really would have accepted is for Russia to balkanize, Russia to denuclearize, to fully stop developing weapons, basically cease as a power permanently. That's why we fueled conflicts in places like the caucus even in the 90s because even though they were no longer the USSR commie threat, we wanted to fragment that massive landmass and have all these breakaway regions become countries so they are no longer a threat permanently under some large centralized state.

The thing with US hegemony is that it can't allow any other power to emerge, even if that power doesn't actually threaten us. I mean look at China for example, at no point did they give even the slightest hint of any sort of offensive action against us yet we announced the 'pivot to Asia' and started mobilizing all these other countries against them. We just saw them behaving slightly more assertive in their own backyard and we won't have it. Because all of these nations need to know their place.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Feb 27 2024 03:59pm

Well stated.

The idea that Russia is going to forgo it's own interest entirely in order to become a completely demilitarized market slave of the US is pretty stupid. Any expectation they do so is unrealistic.

How'd the US reaction during the Cuban Missile Crisis go? Pretty decent? Guess not. Meanwhile, we've got nukes sat in Turkey, within striking distance of Moscow. But Russia's the unreasonable one?

Pfft.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 27 2024 04:26pm

By "told them to take a walk" if you actually mean gave them billions of dollars to prevent widespread famine, then yes.
The majority of which was pilfered by oligarchs.



Freedom of press, freedom of protest, democracy, a functioning opposition, respecting the united nations charter, peaceful transition of power, an actual transition of power.



This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Feb 27 2024 04:57pm

You wanna go ahead and source that, or at least provide some dates so we know what you're talking about?

Post USSR Russia hasn't exactly had issues feeding itself. Most US support provided to Russia since the USSR collapse was in cleaning up and modernizing old nuclear sites, both the power kind and the weapon kind.

What famine has post-communist Russia dealt with, exactly?

Edit: Just a quick, casual search shows the last famine or even risk of famine in Russia occurring in 1984. That was Soviet Russia, friend. Nor do I see "billions" in US support to Russia for famine aid anywhere. The most I see is ~100 Million given, and that was a century ago. Definitely gonna need more info to have the slightest clue what the fuck you're blathering about.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 27 2024 05:04pm

I didn't say there was a famine. Its hypothetical and not remotely difficult to comprehend how it could have been far, far worse without billions of international aid being pumped into Russia after the USSR's collapse.

Ah, so you're just making shit up. Noted.

"Western aid to Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union was on the order of $50 billion to $100 billion in the 1990s, depending on what one counts as aid and how one measures it."

https://carnegieendowment.org/1999/09/01/western-civil-society-aid-to-eastern-europe-and-former-soviet-union-pub-145

So your saying that is insignificant? Former USSR countries had no issues sourcing foodstuffs?
Bold move slim.

https://www.nytimes.com/1990/11/27/world/evolution-in-europe-food-shortages-cause-desperation-in-moscow.html

Don't take my word for it. Take it from a source quoting a Muscovite who was there!

-By Steven Greenhouse, Special To the New York Times
Nov. 27, 1990

"Martina Bogdanova, manager of Food Store No. 19 in the Sverdlovsk District, shrugged her big shoulders as she tried to explain why all but one of the 16 refrigerator cases in her store were empty.
"I've been in this system for 25 years, and I've never seen things this bad," she said, gesturing toward the hourlong line of glum Muscovites waiting alongside a case of anemic-looking meat.
As winter approaches, Moscow has been gripped by increasing desperation and bitterness over food because the lines and the shortages in state shops are widely considered the worst since World War II. Muscovites are so scared of worsening shortages and general chaos that they are hoarding as much food as they can stuff into their small apartments."

I'll wait for you to catch up.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Feb 27 2024 05:11pm

"Eastern European" and "Former Soviet Union" covers dozens of countries. It does not mean Russia. Do not conflate the two.

Romania experiencing famine when they took an extra two decades to shake off their communist rulers doesn't mean shit when speaking about Russia.

There has been ZERO "foreign aid" given to RUSSIA in nearly 20 years. As I said, when we were still providing them "aid" it was in the form of assisting them in cleaning up and modernizing nuclear sites.

Russia has not had a food issue since the collapse of the USSR. Other nations, aka former soviet states, who turned anti-Russia and pro-west being unable to feed themselves when even Ukraine, the most corrupt former-Soviet state had no such issue says more about the West than it does about Russia.

Keep making shit up though. Eventually you'll stumble onto something smart based on luck alone.



So to attempt to prove your made up, bullshit point that post-communist Russia has dealt with "famine", you quote a source saying that the USSR had empty store shelves?

You do realize the USSR collapsed in 1991, right? It feels like you're being willfully stupid. Seriously. Make shit up all you want, just admit you're making it up. It's fine.

This post was edited by InsaneBobb on Feb 27 2024 05:17pm

Bring the sources champ.

Someone that was there in Moscow. Thats Moscow, Russia. You still following? Said this
"I've been in this system for 25 years, and I've never seen things this bad"

In 1990.



Nobody cares about Canada

Might be good to have one of those things though. That'd be a start.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Feb 27 2024 05:21pm

Sure would be nice to have most of those things here in Canada