Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 19 2024 11:21pm)
Indeed, we've seen it before with Bakhmut. What significance did Russia capturing Bakhmut have in the end? They spent 7 months and god knows how many lives to take the bombed out ruins of that city, but it didn't propel them forward or create new momentum. Similar story with Avdiivka, which holds no strategic value for a Ukraine as long as they're forced into a defensive posture. They had been able to shell the Donetsk airport from Avdiivka, but with their low stockpiles and with the hope of taking back the Donbass all but gone, there was no real point in continuing to do that anyway.
It is a victory for Russia, I don't deny that. They eliminated a strategic weakness that they no longer have to worry about. Good for them. But none of this means that taking Avdiivka was a formidable feat, or indicative of Ukraine's lines crumbling at-large. It doesn't even necessarily mean that the death toll Russia paid for this victory was really worth it. And yes, pyrrhic victories exist. I would argue that Bakhmut was one. Avdiivka imho had a (slightly) bigger strategic value, so I don't think taking that one back was a pyrrhic victory - but it was a costly victory, the cost benefit ratio imho is barely positive.
Your logic is flawed. The Russian lost a huge amount of men and material in the battle for Berlin 1945. Does that mean they lost the battle, or was the West putting it that way? Of course not. The Russians were part of the allies, that's the difference here.
The attempts to downplay the significance of Russian victories in Ukraine is pure cope. First the city is called a fortress and strategically important but when the Russians take the city it's called a bombed out shell, symbolic victory, countless Russians died therefor it's not worth it, and so on. Pure copium.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Avdiivka_(2022%E2%80%932024)
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Avdiivka is one of the most fortified settlements in Ukraine and has been described as a "gateway" to the nearby Russian-occupied city of Donetsk. Ukraine's control of Avdiivka had prevented Russia from using Donetsk and its resources as a communications hub and prevented Russian breakthroughs on this axis.[25][26][27]
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Avdiivka is an industrial city in the heart of Donetsk Oblast, located northwest of Donetsk city, the region's principal city.[27] Avdiivka is home to the Avdiivka Coke Plant, the largest coke producer in Ukraine. The city had a pre-war population of about 32,000 people.[2][19]
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It is considered one of the bloodiest and fiercest battles of the war.[22][23][24]
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Both the Ukrainians and Russians acknowledged Avdiivka as a key settlement necessary for Russia's larger objective of securing the entirety of the Donbas, with it serving as a "gateway" to Donetsk city.[236] In early February 2024, Ukrainian presidential advisor Mykhailo Podolyak said Avdiivka was important to the Russians because it allowed them to "control the space around Donetsk, you have control of dominant heights there, and they can build logistics corridors to supply a large area of the front ... This is not about symbolism, this is about the operative importance of a particular territory."[2]