Quote (ferdia @ Feb 7 2024 11:44am)
the facts of the matter is that the US orchestrated a coup in 2014, this should not be rocket science to accept and this is not a new dawn of US foreign policy. Russia had expressly told the US repeatedly not to touch Ukraine. We provided the evidence (US leaked documents) which supported this. The US then decided that strengthening ties with Ukraine would be a brilliant idea and decided to keep poking the bear over a number of years (with western ukraine shelling eastern ukraine and getting 78billion in aid prior to the start of the war). Russia, the old man of europe repeatedly said no no no, and were repeatedly ignored, which culminated in Russia invading Ukraine. No means no. You know, it would have been much cleaner if the US simply told Russia that they would send troops to Ukraine if Russia invaded, OR, not charged Ukraine when they sent them billions of dollars of obsolete weapons that wont change the tide of war, OR, agreed last year that negotiating with Russia was the best thing to do for the country at that time, OR sought a diplomatic solution. When looking at US allies committing genocide in other parts of the world and escalating conflicts rather then looking for anything other then a final solution, it is no wonder that ukraine is fubar.
this is a point that gets overlooked a lot
Joe Biden greenlit this invasion in the first place. Before the olympics was all kinds of hubbub about whether Russia would invade Ukraine as they massed on the border, and Biden got in front of it by explicitly stating we would not defend Ukraine if it was invaded. Now look where we are. The fruit of half measures. Biden could have played at brinksmanship and said we would put US troops right in Kiev and defend every inch of western Ukraine with the full might of the US military, and bullied Putin into submission. Would it have averted this war, or caused a greater one? Every bit of historical precedent says they'd back down and we'd have won our prize. Instead Biden opted to give Putin the green light to invade and then try to bleed him at every turn by backing western Ukraine, but breaking with the historical precedent of shadow proxy wars by overtly arming and training Ukraine to fight directly against Russians and give them as much modern equipment as we could, and yet they
still lost the war.
Its the worst of both worlds and I've said that since this began. You confront or you accede, you don't try to play passive aggressive against naked aggression.