Quote (Crunkt @ Feb 6 2024 10:57pm)

Would you answer yes or no to the following question:

Is Russia an enemy to The Western worlds free market and democratic freedoms?

Quote (ferdia @ Feb 7 2024 09:59am)

What kind of a statement is this ? Russia was isolationist until the west butted in. You dont see Russian drone sites all over the world, you see US ones. You dont see nuclear missiles in Cuba but we do see them in Turkey etc. If Russia was a threat to the US it would have missiles in Cuba, Mexico etc etc. it does not. Russia is not the peer competitor, China is. The US has basically contrived to make Russia an enemy, and worse, has shoved Russia in to China's arms (stupid). In terms of an enemy of the free market - under this current administration, the united states of america is the no.1 enemy of the free market, as it continues to de-globalize and seek conflict. If you remove trade relations and impose sanctions with countries you are basically removing all the fail safe's against war. Weaponizing the dollar was a monumental long-term own goal with the expectation that if this continues, countries will stop using it. combined with breaking out of weapons treaties we are on a one way trip to a F around and find out scenario. That is exactly what the US is doing at the moment. Common sense and a degree of restraint is non existent.

It is in the entire worlds interests for there to be no wars, to have globalization (international trade). That was great for everyone but is being eroded, mainly by US foreign policy.

it is ironic you speak of democratic freedoms when the US is funding Israel which is busy ethnically cleansing Palestinians and using US weapons to do so. The right thing to do would be to sanction Israel, which Yemen tried to do, and for that it was bombed by the US and England. South Africa embarrassed the entire world by winning in the international court (read: Israel misbehaving but green light from the US to commit genocide) and in response the US and England threw their toys out of the pram and de-funded the UN relief agency. We then had 3 americans killed in jordan and a disproportionate response, advance to war, do not pass go do not collect 200.

TLDR: Russia is an enemy to the western world's free market, but not of its own accord. The west decided to make Russia an enemy and has taken steps to cement that. Russia would much rather get along.

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 7 2024 10:43am)

The answer is no, obviously not. Russia is a glorified gas station, a source of cheap resources, that has lost its empire and simply doesn't have the economic clout to compete with the world superpowers anymore.
America and China are the only true superpowers, the EU teetering on the far edges of dissolution and lack of productivity, while India is ascendant and threatening to make it a tripartite power structure. Russia is not on course to resume the USSR's mantle.

Russia can't project its force worldwide, it can't win the economic peacetime by expanding its influence like China's belt and road initiative can, it can't manipulate global commerce like America can. Its ability to interfere in proxy conflicts basically extends to its immediate borders and some lingering presence in the absolutely poorest and least impactful shitholes in Africa, its barely got a presence in the mideast with Assad. Unaligned countries probably care more about pissing off Modi than pissing off Putin at this point.

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 7 2024 11:43am)

The answer is no, obviously not. Russia is a glorified gas station, a source of cheap resources, that has lost its empire and simply doesn't have the economic clout to compete with the world superpowers anymore.
America and China are the only true superpowers, the EU teetering on the far edges of dissolution and lack of productivity, while India is ascendant and threatening to make it a tripartite power structure. Russia is not on course to resume the USSR's mantle.

Russia can't project its force worldwide, it can't win the economic peacetime by expanding its influence like China's belt and road initiative can, it can't manipulate global commerce like America can. Its ability to interfere in proxy conflicts basically extends to its immediate borders and some lingering presence in the absolutely poorest and least impactful shitholes in Africa, its barely got a presence in the mideast with Assad. Unaligned countries probably care more about pissing off Modi than pissing off Putin at this point.

Quote (JohnnyMcCoy @ Feb 7 2024 07:24am)

just having these resources already makes you a big player and the ukraine conflict shows that self sufficiency is more important than GDP numbers

germany has a larger economy on paper and they cant even raid a pantry, congrats

russia has always been in its own tier, you just cant compare them to most other countries

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 7 2024 01:33pm)

Iran, Russia and even North Korea are all relatively self-sufficient. It gives them a staying power and resistance to external pressures, that's for sure, but it doesn't make them competitive on a world stage. There's a big difference between isolationist world powers and those vying for influence.
If I pick subterranean democracy and camp out in a small corner of the galaxy map researching my way up to plasma cannons and zortrium armor before I'm ready to move out, I'm going to lose to someone expanding rapidly with their tolerant lithovores and taking over half the map

Its not necessarily just a measure of resources either. Germany could meet their own energy and food need, their policies have sabotaged that. America does meet its own energy and food needs, but it employs those resources in dominating the world.
Russia has been isolationist to a fault, ceded the baltic states and most of their empire in the post soviet era and hasn't wielded their energy exports as aggressively as even far smaller and less armed arab states have. Russia's only wars have been fought to hang onto territory in its own back yard, in checknya and ukraine, and they're barely able to keep the peace on their eastern front as the nagorno karabakh kept popping off. They stopped playing the expansionist game and NATO expanded right to their doorstep, and surprise surprise we put a foot firmly in their door and pried it open and tried to seize Russia's granaries by force.

Quote (Goomshill @ Feb 7 2024 02:33pm)

Iran, Russia and even North Korea are all relatively self-sufficient. It gives them a staying power and resistance to external pressures, that's for sure, but it doesn't make them competitive on a world stage. There's a big difference between isolationist world powers and those vying for influence.
If I pick subterranean democracy and camp out in a small corner of the galaxy map researching my way up to plasma cannons and zortrium armor before I'm ready to move out, I'm going to lose to someone expanding rapidly with their tolerant lithovores and taking over half the map

Its not necessarily just a measure of resources either. Germany could meet their own energy and food need, their policies have sabotaged that. America does meet its own energy and food needs, but it employs those resources in dominating the world.
Russia has been isolationist to a fault, ceded the baltic states and most of their empire in the post soviet era and hasn't wielded their energy exports as aggressively as even far smaller and less armed arab states have. Russia's only wars have been fought to hang onto territory in its own back yard, in checknya and ukraine, and they're barely able to keep the peace on their eastern front as the nagorno karabakh kept popping off. They stopped playing the expansionist game and NATO expanded right to their doorstep, and surprise surprise we put a foot firmly in their door and pried it open and tried to seize Russia's granaries by force.

Quote (Goomshill @ 7 Feb 2024 11:43)

The answer is no, obviously not. Russia is a glorified gas station, a source of cheap resources, that has lost its empire and simply doesn't have the economic clout to compete with the world superpowers anymore.
America and China are the only true superpowers, the EU teetering on the far edges of dissolution and lack of productivity, while India is ascendant and threatening to make it a tripartite power structure. Russia is not on course to resume the USSR's mantle.

Russia can't project its force worldwide, it can't win the economic peacetime by expanding its influence like China's belt and road initiative can, it can't manipulate global commerce like America can. Its ability to interfere in proxy conflicts basically extends to its immediate borders and some lingering presence in the absolutely poorest and least impactful shitholes in Africa, its barely got a presence in the mideast with Assad. Unaligned countries probably care more about pissing off Modi than pissing off Putin at this point.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Feb 7 2024 03:56pm)

While I agree with most of this post, the bolded part undersells the Russian role. In 2015, the government forces of Assad were on the brink of collapse under the pressure from ISIS and the Syrian opposition (mostly al-Nusra and other islamists, with a few non-islamistic rebels also sprinkled in). The Russian intervention completely turned the Syrian civil war around probably prevented a genocide against the Alawites. This episode definitely increased the Russian standing on the global stage, they had proven a reliable and formidable ally. A lot of this went to shit last year, though, when they failed to protect their ally Armenia in the most recent flare-up of the Nagorno-Karabakh conflict because all their forces were tied in Ukraine.


Btw, he was asking if Russia is an enemy to free markets and democracy, you addressed whether they are a threat to them - a subtle but significant difference, between intention and capability.