d2jsp
Log InRegister
d2jsp Forums > Off-Topic > General Chat > Political & Religious Debate > Russiagate Gathering Steam?
Prev1389390391392393445Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll
Member
Posts: 35,291
Joined: Aug 17 2004
Gold: 12,730.67
Mar 25 2019 09:15pm
Quote (PlasmaSnake101 @ Mar 25 2019 07:10am)
I think it's good that we bury the hatchet. Even though we both dislike Trump for very different reasons. To my defense, I never thought "no collusion" because of my political position, it just seemed pretty unlikely. A bungler like Drumpf managing to keep something so heavy under wraps.

I spent so much time away though handling my depression and anxiety so I'm not sure how this forum thinks now. I don't know you're politics. Are you like a Mitt Romney/John McCain Establishment Republican? I saw thundercock has an Amy avatar, I'm thinking that's ironic. I know you were more libertarian, but those went extinct over the past ten years. TC was always a troll but more heavily right wing establishment than others.


Not a troll actually. She's the candidate that I'm backing until she drops out. My concern is that there are millions of people whose beliefs are equivalent to my trolling (i.e. Hussein-care).
Member
Posts: 61,492
Joined: Mar 14 2006
Gold: 5.77
Mar 25 2019 10:00pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Mar 25 2019 05:28pm)
No he wouldn't. You clearly didn't live in Arizona. We witnessed the degradation of McCain's mind real time. We watched as he forgot who he was, what he believed in, and what he stood for. We still stood by him, to the end, because the alternatives at the state level weren't viable.

The guy was a joke, and anybody who would have voted for him as President was an idiot.

Obama was the clear choice, hands down, and Palin had nothing to do with it.



I literally lived in Tempe.
Member
Posts: 20,761
Joined: Jul 21 2005
Gold: 6,061.70
Mar 25 2019 10:07pm
Quote (inkanddagger @ Mar 25 2019 09:00pm)
I literally lived in Tempe.


Then why are you spreading the myth that Palin was the reason McCain lost?
Member
Posts: 61,492
Joined: Mar 14 2006
Gold: 5.77
Mar 25 2019 10:24pm
Quote (InsaneBobb @ Mar 25 2019 09:07pm)
Then why are you spreading the myth that Palin was the reason McCain lost?



Because in 2007 and 2008 every Democrat I talked to had respect for McCain. And it wasn’t until crazy Palin that my Republican friends started pulling out.

And I would know this on an intimate level because I was the statewide canvass director for Arizona PIRG from 2005 to 2008 and oversaw door knocking everywhere in state year round.

I’ll admit I was being a bit facetious. Obama would have won anyway in all likelihood. But Palin is where crossover Dems and moderate Republicans noped out. It cost him several states.

You know who we really hated in Flagstaff though? Flake.

This post was edited by inkanddagger on Mar 25 2019 10:26pm
Member
Posts: 12,188
Joined: Feb 13 2010
Gold: 14.88
Mar 26 2019 08:44am
Quote (IceMage @ Mar 25 2019 04:01pm)
You can't simultaneously claim that Hillary was a horrible candidate, and Trump was the only guy who could beat her. He appealed to the loons in the Republican primary, and rode his personality cult into the presidency. If you wanted the most conservative candidate, it was Cruz. If you wanted the libertarian, anti-war choice, it was Rand. If you wanted the outsider with the best one-liners, and the most simple solutions, and the built-in television fame, it was the orange man.


The bulk of Republicans wanted someone who wasn't a typical conservative or a typical libertarian. Big surprise, but libertarianism is not very popular. Deregulated markets aren't very popular. The socially liberal/fiscally conservative approach isn't popular. People prefer more authoritative government and moderately regulated markets. And we want strives in labor rights. For instance, most families would probably not oppose minimum annual leave requirements. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_annual_leave_by_country. They would also support increasing taxes on the hyper wealthy and multinational corporations.

This is probably because middle America has seen some shit with loss of wealth, loss of industry, hopelessness of youth, the opioid epidemic. Not saying Trump would deliver on worker benefits or heal middle America. But they knew Hillary, Cruz and Rand wouldn't help them either, so may as well go with the wild card.


Quote (thundercock @ Mar 25 2019 07:15pm)
Not a troll actually. She's the candidate that I'm backing until she drops out. My concern is that there are millions of people whose beliefs are equivalent to my trolling (i.e. Hussein-care).


The last two Democrats who won are two of the most charismatic people on Earth. Not a single candidate holds a candle to them. In fact, many are not charismatic and rather off putting. Amy for instance has those stories about mistreating staff. Not a good look. Being exploited as an independent contractor for 2 years now, workers right and worker mistreatment has become much more relevant in my life. Someone who mistreats their staff can suck my dick and proceed to fuck right off. Even if you don't care about those stories (you should since it speaks to her character) she lacks the charisma of actual contenders. All of them lack charisma.

Quote (excellence @ Mar 25 2019 01:23pm)
most people didn't like McCain and Rmoney period, McCain ran into 2008 Obama sure so good luck winning there, but Rmoney man that idiot (like the racist he is) wrote off 47% of the population just like that. didn't even bother trying to get their vote. that and he abused his dog. two non-starters when it comes to trying to win a Presidential election. then he still has some wiggle room to win and he spent the entire 2nd debate debating the fucking moderator :rofl:


Exactly. Trump was offensive in two ways. He was offending sensibilities and always on the offensive. He spent little time defending himself, preferring a strategy of constant attack and ridicule. And to be honest, I think a lot of Americans found it cathartic in a way. To see on a national stage someone humiliate and shit on the most prominent politicians of the time, Americans took a large degree of pleasure in seeing that. I'm of the opinion that you should never respect any elected official and they should be booed, hissed at and ridiculed where ever they go.

This post was edited by PlasmaSnake101 on Mar 26 2019 08:45am
Member
Posts: 46,655
Joined: Jan 20 2010
Gold: 22,164.69
Apr 10 2019 06:28pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/gregory-craig-ex-obama-white-house-counsel-expects-to-be-charged-in-relation-to-ukrainian-work-with-manafort-his-lawyers-say/2019/04/10/9c0e0b32-4c04-11e9-93d0-64dbcf38ba41_story.html?noredirect=on

Quote
Gregory Craig, ex-Obama White House counsel, expects to be charged in relation to Ukrainian work with Manafort, his lawyers say

Attorneys for former White House Counsel Gregory B. Craig said Wednesday that he expects to face federal charges in the coming days in relationship to legal work he did for the Ukrainian government in 2012.

The expected indictment — which his attorneys called “a misguided abuse of prosecutorial discretion” — stems from work Craig did with GOP lobbyist Paul Manafort on behalf of the Ukrainian Ministry of Justice in 2012.

At the time, Craig was a partner at Skadden, Arps, Slate, Meagher & Flom, the law firm he joined after ending his tenure as counsel to President Barack Obama. Manafort, the former campaign chairman to President Trump, pleaded guilty last year to charges related to his Ukraine lobbying.

In a statement, attorneys William W. Taylor III and William Murphy said they expect Craig, 74, will be indicted by the U.S. attorney’s office in Washington at the request of the Justice Department’s national security division. That could not be independently corroborated. A spokesman for the U.S. attorney did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

“Mr. Craig is not guilty of any charge,” Craig’s attorneys said in their statement.

Craig resigned from Skadden in April 2018 amid a building investigation into whether the firm’s lawyers failed to register as foreign lobbyists for their Ukraine engagement.

He would be the first prominent Democratic figure to be charged as a result of a foreign lobbying investigation spun out of special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s probe into Russia interference in the 2016 presidential campaign.

His indictment would represent a dramatic turn for a member of the country’s most elite legal circles. Craig attended Yale Law School with Bill and Hillary Clinton and later worked in the Clinton State Department and White House. An early Obama supporter, he served for a year as his first White House counsel. He is also a veteran of the Washington-based law firm Williams and Connolly.

Last year, Mueller’s team prosecuted Manafort, who admitted that he had failed to properly register as a foreign lobbyist while working as a political consultant for Ukrainian President Viktor Yanukovych, whose 2010 campaign Manafort helped advise. Last month, Manafort was sentenced to a total of 7½ years in prison for lobbying violations and financial crimes.

Craig’s firm was hired in 2012 by Yanukovych’s Justice Ministry to conduct a review of the prosecution of one of Yanukovych’s leading political rivals, Yulia Tymoshenko. The agreement included providing advice on improving prosecutions by the ministry, according to court filings.

Skadden produced a 187-page white paper that offered a mixed review of the trial and imprisonment of Tymoshenko, claiming the analysis it conducted of the case was independent.

But human rights advocates alleged the report had been engineered by Yanukovych’s government and whitewashed the jailing of his political opponent.

And Manafort eventually admitted that he and other lobbyists used the Skadden report as part of a broad effort to improve Yanukovych’s reputation in the West, which had suffered after the widely condemned jailing of Tymoshenko. Manafort agreed they failed to disclose their lobbying effort, which included disseminating the Skadden report to U.S. government officials.

Craig came under scrutiny in part for contact he had in December 2012 with reporters, particularly at the New York Times, to explain the content of the report.

After Skadden was mentioned in news coverage, the Justice Department sought information from the law firm about whether its work, including the media contacts, required the lawyers to have registered as foreign lobbyists.

In a letter sent to the Justice Department in October 2013 and obtained by The Washington Post, Craig wrote that his media contacts came in response “to inaccuracies in U.S. news reports” and that he was “in no way serving as an agent for Ukraine.”

In response, a Justice Department official sent Craig a letter in January 2014 indicating that the government agency found the firm had “no present obligation to register under FARA.”

But subsequently, as prosecutors began scrutinizing the work of Manafort and his associates in Ukraine, they reexamined the role of Craig’s firm, including whether Craig was honest during his interactions with the Justice Department over his registration requirements in 2013.

Skadden in January reached a settlement with the Justice Department, admitting it should have registered for its work in 2012 and 2013, and agreed to turn over the $4.6 million in fees it made for the report in exchange for facing no criminal charges. In its settlement, Skadden agreed that DOJ’s 2014 finding that the firm did not need to register came after DOJ relied on “false and misleading oral and written statements” made by Craig.

In their statement Wednesday, Craig’s attorneys said his work on the Tymoshenko case came “as an independent expert on the rule of law, not as an advocate for the client” and that he refused requests to participate in Ukraine’s lobbying around the report.

They said Craig “did not lie to his former firm or the government” and said his contact with the New York Times was intended to ensure the newspaper accurately summarized the way the report criticized Tymoshenko’s trial.

The Ukrainian government reported that Skadden was paid just $12,000 for the report, but prosecutors have said that Manafort used an offshore account to help route more than $4 million to the law firm to pay for the work.

Another Skadden lawyer, Alex van der Zwaan, pleaded guilty in 2018 to lying to the FBI about his work on the report, agreeing that he had slipped an early copy to Manafort to assist in his pro-Yanukovych lobby efforts and later deleted emails related to the effort. He served 30 days in prison.

Mueller’s office, which prosecuted Manafort, referred Craig’s case last year to prosecutors in Manhattan as Mueller worked to bring his investigation to a close, people familiar with the matter have said. The case was then transferred back to prosecutors in Washington.

Separately, prosecutors in New York have been investigating whether FARA rules were violated by two other prominent Washington figures: Tony Podesta, a Democratic lobbyist who once owned one of Washington’s leading firms, and Vin Weber, a former Republican congressman, who helps lead the Washington office of Mercury LLC.
Member
Posts: 104,571
Joined: Apr 25 2006
Gold: 10,485.00
Member
Posts: 48,844
Joined: Jun 18 2006
Gold: 5,016.77
Member
Posts: 9,750
Joined: Feb 6 2006
Gold: 11.00
Apr 11 2019 08:11am
Boo
Go Back To Political & Religious Debate Topic List
Prev1389390391392393445Next
Add Reply New Topic New Poll