Quote (Goomshill @ 24 Jan 2024 11:31)
Where Ukraine can go right now, what options it has available- is a different discussion than what Ukraine has gained or lost from the events set in motion since the Maidan in 2014. We're talking the latter, not the former.
In the former, there's really no options for either side, the conflict has frozen and its clear enough what the outcome is- a divided Ukraine, with Russia seizing the ethnic Russian parts and western Ukraine joining the EU & NATO but only after being thoroughly devastated. Barring any unlikely implosion of the country, that seems to be the outcome. Then the latter part of the question is, how have Ukrainians fared with such an outcome? Western Ukraine has been depopulated, its infrastructure obliterated, its resources seized. Its in shambles right now and there's no indication it will get better in the next 20 years. It was already the poorest country in Europe, now its like post-famine Ireland. Things couldn't be going much worse.
The Maidan had plenty of genuine diehard nationalist Ukrainians who wanted to split from Russia and were willing to overthrow a democracy to do it, its not like a color revolution is carried out by a bunch of CIA plants. We even had those nationalists working with Biden before he became president, and in the Trump impeachment like Alexander Vindman and Eric Ciaramella. These people thought it was in their country's interests to break with Russia and join the EU. Even if it meant provoking a war. And they got their revolution, got their war, and got blown the fuck out. The result has been a bit like the outcome of the khwarazmians refusing to pay tribute to the mongol horde.
Doesn't really impact me what fate Ukraine gets from all this. Its incidental to our national interests at best, but more irrelevant really. We don't care if Ukrainians get slaughtered and we sure aren't willing to fight a WW3 on their behalf. It does become our problem when Biden jeopardizes our geopolitical interests in pursuit of this dumb conflict
Ok that makes a lot more sense to me now I appreciate that bud!
Why does it seem like MSM and "elite interest" pit Russia and the United States at odds with each other? Two great nations that are predominantly "Christian" getting subverted by socialist/communist ideologs. Democrats in 2016 saying "Russia collusion" and Hillary Clinton and Joe Biden "shooting their mouths off talking about nuclear war with Russia".
It seems like the relationship JFK got assassinated over was partially due to the fact that in my opinion world elites could hold the whole world hostage with a never ending "Cold War" and when JFK tried to better relations at that time it backfired. I know this is stretching into conspiracy but it seems like the same "group" behind JFK's assassination is the same group currently running the democratic party from behind the scenes.
No idea why the United States and Russia wouldn't "bury the hatchet" and better both their countries by being more cooperative with one another.
If people like Trump or Putin and other populist figures didn't cause such a ruccus for the "New World Order" they wouldn't be public targets #1 and #2 (Trump/Putin)