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Jan 7 2024 12:32am
Quote (Thor123422 @ 7 Jan 2024 03:46)
That is one area I could have been more clear. I didn't intend to say Ural would need to be 80+. I meant that brent crude would need to be 80 with how the current discounted rate is going to come near the break even. Ever since sanctions ural has been trading at a steep discount where it was trading at a premium before. Right now it's around 57 relative to Brent Crude's 78 which is right around what we can expect the break even to be. Around that $60. If Brent falls so will Ural, and if it goes significantly below $80 we can expect that to drive Russian producers possibly into the negative.

TBH I don't think this convo will be productive regardless of what sources I show you. You already drastically misrepresented a source that disagreed with your assessment, and said a few ridiculous things like "they're transporting under $20" when it went as high as $36 just earlier this year and was $20 to India as recently as the beginning of December, said crude has only recently been sustained above $80 a barrel when it's routinely traded above that price since the 2010's..... Just so many bad claims in such a short time.

My point stands regardless of where you look. Oil prices are around break even for Russia, best case scenario they are profitable but not drastically so at current prices when you take into account increased shipping, necessary use of intermediaries, increased cost of using old ships and having to bring new transport online, and increased cost to drill.


You are really out of your depth here and have absolutely no clue what you are talking about and how crude oil is priced. It is actually scary that you dare to double down on your opinions. This is the prime example why price cap and sanctions have failed - thanks to people like you who operate on moral high grounds without having an understanding of the underlying business.

Logistics from Russia to India is between $4 to 10$ per barrel depending on port of departure (Baltics for REBCO gets 10$, Kozmino for ESPO gets 4$), Russia to China is between 2$ to 13$. You still had to transport Russian oil before and pay that price - so its not really a shocker. Urals still flows to Europe to this day via pipelines to countries like Serbia, Hungary and etc. Urals oil prices on a delivered ex-ship basis in Indian ports were stable at a discount of around $5 per barrel to dated Brent. Russian oil ALWAYS traded at a discount to dated Brent as its a heavy sour which not all refineries can take. Russian exporters margin net of taxes is between 150-200$ per tonne (it went down to about 50$ in March 2020 when dated brent dropped to 20ish). Russian production is not "hampered" yet, its about 9m barrels/day. It will take decades for sanctions to damage Russian capacity to produce oil as they are more or less self sufficient in technology for oil production and refining as USSR somehow managed to produce oil for over a century without western tech. Oil production doesn't require sophisticated chips and Russians have strong education for geoscience, engineering and trading that allows them to compete with international oil companies.

There are only two ways here to fight Russia on their own football field - force India and China to hurt their own economies by stopping Russian oil cold turkey (not going to happen) or agree with Saudis / OPEC to drop oil price to 20$ish for a year or two (good luck with that) or option three - increase domestic production in US to flood world markets and push prices down (but you have to deal with ESG crowd and Democrats who will cry foul that you are investing in oil assets).

This post was edited by Malopox on Jan 7 2024 12:34am
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Jan 7 2024 01:24am
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 7 2024 01:25am)
In the scenario where Ukraine crumbles due to waning Western support and Russia ultimately ends up taking all of Ukraine, this is what's gonna happen in Western and Central Ukraine. But I disagree when it comes to the Donbass and Crimea. These two places were decidedly Russia-leaning not too long ago, there should be genuine majority support for being ruled by Russia over there.


Time will tell. Its fairly obvious I think that by sheer numbers, what I am suggesting is highly possible if not likely.
Identifying what region is definitely presumptive, but a 2500km border to defend indefinitely is an unenviable task.

Belgorod is more than decidedly Russian, and it has not been immune.
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Jan 7 2024 05:19pm
So.... NATO still getting manhandled by Russia eh?

Lol wonder how long it lasts after all of this, I bet it folds within a couple years of the war being over, who would ever trust them now

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Jan 7 2024 05:25pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ 8 Jan 2024 00:19)
So.... NATO still getting manhandled by Russia eh?

Lol wonder how long it lasts after all of this, I bet it folds within a couple years of the war being over, who would ever trust them now


After two years of war, Russia has gained roughly 5% of Ukraine's territory on top of what they already controlled before the war. They have taken exactly one major city over the past 18 months. NATO famously refused to send any of the really good stuff to Ukraine, and even the systems they did share with them only arrived late and in small quantities. NATO has no boots on the ground in Ukraine and continues to have annual military expenditures which are more than 15 times higher than Russia's. (And that is with Russia being on wartime footing while most of the NATO countries are not.)

You seem to have a funny understanding of the term "manhandled".

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Jan 7 2024 05:25pm
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Jan 7 2024 05:51pm
Quote (Black XistenZ @ Jan 7 2024 07:25pm)
After two years of war, Russia has gained roughly 5% of Ukraine's territory on top of what they already controlled before the war. They have taken exactly one major city over the past 18 months. NATO famously refused to send any of the really good stuff to Ukraine, and even the systems they did share with them only arrived late and in small quantities. NATO has no boots on the ground in Ukraine and continues to have annual military expenditures which are more than 15 times higher than Russia's. (And that is with Russia being on wartime footing while most of the NATO countries are not.)

You seem to have a funny understanding of the term "manhandled".


Lol yeah let me know when Russia leaves the Ukrainian territory they've taken. The fact you can't recognize what an absolute embarrassment this whole situation is just further evidence of the decline of the West IMO.

Russia has made a mockery of the western controlled world order and they have come out of it just fine, if you can't recognize the global shift since this conflict started I don't know what to tell you. The west has nailed its own coffin shut in an attempt to maintain its previous hegemony.

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Jan 7 2024 10:42pm
Quote (DizzyBusiness @ Jan 7 2024 06:51pm)
Lol yeah let me know when Russia leaves the Ukrainian territory they've taken. The fact you can't recognize what an absolute embarrassment this whole situation is just further evidence of the decline of the West IMO.

Russia has made a mockery of the western controlled world order and they have come out of it just fine, if you can't recognize the global shift since this conflict started I don't know what to tell you. The west has nailed its own coffin shut in an attempt to maintain its previous hegemony.


Are you high? Russia may be winning the war, but all this war did was show what a paper tiger Russia really is. The only thing really holding Russia as any form of serious power is that fat pile of nukes it's sitting on. That is literally the only reason they haven't been steam rolled by the west. Watching them struggle with a bunch of farmers in Ukraine with some western weapons will still stain their military image, regardless of victory (victory which at best will be a small chunk of eastern Ukraine, not even the whole country).
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Jan 8 2024 01:12am
Quote (Mattd90 @ Jan 8 2024 12:42am)
Are you high? Russia may be winning the war, but all this war did was show what a paper tiger Russia really is. The only thing really holding Russia as any form of serious power is that fat pile of nukes it's sitting on. That is literally the only reason they haven't been steam rolled by the west. Watching them struggle with a bunch of farmers in Ukraine with some western weapons will still stain their military image, regardless of victory (victory which at best will be a small chunk of eastern Ukraine, not even the whole country).


Russia is winning and anyone with any sense knew this would be the result. I don't think you know what the term paper tiger means, much more applicable to the west, especially after this embarrassment. Russia has destroyed every piece of western equipment thrown at them without any nukes, but yeah the fact they have tons of them means the US is completely toothless now that their half assed proxy war and sanctions failed so horribly.

Meanwhile the west has mangled international trade, thrown its alliances into chaos and pushed many countries towards China and Russia via BRICS and other agreements in exchange for....what exactly?
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Jan 8 2024 04:34am
Normal service has been resumed :thumbsup:

When you have to try that hard to explain how your winning, chances are it's a false premise.

Alleged Officer losses so far for Russia,

531 majors, 280 lieutenant colonels, 124 colonels and 12 generals

That is not nornal, its sort of... papery.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Jan 8 2024 04:49am
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Jan 8 2024 05:11am


Biden was a lot more coherent in the 90s, but just as arrogant.
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Jan 8 2024 06:46am


Humza Yousaf accused of Ukraine 'betrayal' after refugee support cash for Scots councils axed

The Scottish Government is refusing to match the £10m they initially gave councils to help desperate families.

Local authority chiefs, who received the bombshell news days before Christmas, have warned they may pull staff out of the hotels used by the Ukrainians.

Source: Daily Record

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/humza-yousaf-accused-ukraine-betrayal-31808167
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