Quote (ofthevoid @ 31 Dec 2023 01:11)
They controlled a fraction of the Donbass pre-war, you can look at the map and see how much it has expanded. The war is not just about controlling territory but degrading Ukraine to the point where they either give up NATO aspirations or the country is in such shambles that it would be an absolute liability to have them in NATO.
We've already been over this "Russia must prevent Ukraine from joining NATO"-point many times before.
- This conflict become hot in late 2013 when Ukraine wanted to join the EU, not NATO
- Russia had the ability to unfreeze the frozen conflict in the Donbass anytime it wanted and thus prevent Ukraine from joing NATO indefinitely
- Russia apparently didn't mind gaining 1300km of new NATO border in Finland
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There's no boasting lol, it's objective that the collective west crowd sourced hundreds of billions in weapons to send to Ukraine and that firepower was going to reverse Russian gains. That didn't happen. My point is when we spend 800 billion in military expenditures that doesn't actually mean we get 8x the value compared to Russia's 100 billion per year. Because half the stuff we actually buy is overpriced and the whole industry is filled with bloat. In Russia it's not the same because, at least not right now because this is an existential threat.
Russia, and also its military, are infamous for being rife with corruption. In fact, it's strongly presumed that corruption is one major reason why the clout of the Russian military lagged expectations so drastically during the initial phase of this war.
I agree with you on Russia getting more bang for its buck (not to the degree you seem to assume, but still...) However, admitting this necessarily puts the weapons supplies the West had sent to Ukraine in perspective. In reality, the stuff we had sent them for their counteroffensive wasn't all that much. Which is also why it was no surprise that the counteroffensive would end in abject failure against Russian positions which had had been fortified for half a year.
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Every tit-for-tat has been way more severe and that's been their calling card for the entirety of this conflict. I keep wondering if the west continues to push the boundaries, how are they going to return the favor in years to come. Don't be surprised in a few years when some towelheads start targeting US bases or UK ships with sophisticated weapons.
From Afghanistan over Chechnya and domestic terrorist attacks to the Syrian civil war, Russia has a long history of bad experiences with insurgent islamists. I doubt that they would be willing to hand sophisticated weapons to groups like the Kurds or the Houthis.
This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 31 2023 10:04pm