We already know, putin takes random shots at infrastructure, while ukraine uses smart weapons which targets more accurately.

Poor vlad is sad.

"The rocket stayed in Polish airspace for less than three minutes"
"The object, which is in Polish airspace, was on Polish territory for less than three minutes and left our airspace," said General Klisz. As he noted, "we have about 40 kilometers of airspace violation."

He assured that "the rocket was tracked along the entire track."

"Due to the maneuvers it performed and its departure from Polish airspace, I, as the Operational Commander, have not made any decision regarding this object," said the Operational Commander of the Armed Forces.

He noted that "only one of the observed missiles violated Polish airspace." He added that "this missile returned to Ukrainian territory."

He noted that he could not confirm that "it was the result of Ukraine's anti-missile defense." "I have no knowledge on this subject," said General Klisz.

"We directed forces - planes that were to intercept her and, if necessary, shoot her down. Both her stay in Poland and the way she maneuvered made it impossible to perform this maneuver, which is why she managed to leave Poland," said the Chief of the General Staff, General Wiesław Kukuła

This post was edited by zorzin on Dec 29 2023 01:37pm

You made the idiotic claim that it's mostly Russians mounting losses, the burden of proof is on you. That's how it works buddy, when you make an incredulous claim it's on you to prove why it defies common sense.



Out of all the weapons Ukraine uses a drop in the bucket are 'smart'. You're bringing a whole new level of cluelessness to this discussion.

This post was edited by ofthevoid on Dec 29 2023 01:49pm

Post the sources or discuss what is in front of you and stop attributing people to sources you don't even post.

This kind of framing is not furthering any meaningful discussion.
Or perhaps you have abandoned any false premise of actually discussing in good faith.

The point is both sides are taking heavy losses. But this war meant to be over already, based on Russian claims.
It's an utter embarassment for the Russian miltary that they are losing thousands of troops, hundreds of vehicles, landing ships and fast jets.

No other modern miltary of a regional power would tolerate these kind of losses.

This post was edited by Prox1m1ty on Dec 29 2023 02:56pm

Because a regional power usually isn't fighting a war with an opponent that's sponsored by the two richest continents with hundreds of billions in weapons and intel. We've grown up in an era when western wars were fought against mostly towel heads armed with 1970 AK's and RPGs. Our idea of war is to have an overwhelming technological advantage and to basically pick off perps from far away. Even the most advanced enemy, the Iraqis were laughably armed and had no outside backing. What exactly is embarrassing here?

All of it is embarrassing.
The infantry losses. The ground equipment losses, although this has been a hallmark of Russian miltaty strategy ever since its inception, see Grozny.
The aircraft losses. The black sea fleet being picked off.
The failure of air defense.
The length of time the "special miltary operation" has taken.
The loss of key battles, Hostomel, Kiev, Kharkiv retreat, Kherson retreat, failure to mount an attack on Odessa.

Russia is taking WW2 casualties in a completely different century.

Trying to rationalise this is truly indicitive of your lack of integrity on the matter.
Making excuses after the fact for the ineptitude of the Russian miltary is even further absurdity.
They knew the risks and they still rolled over the border.

I'm not really interested in relitigating the same questions again and again. Suffice to say that the current conflict in Ukraine became acute in late 2013 when Ukraine got close to signing an association agreement with the EU, not when NATO membership was at stake. A couple of months later, after Russia had annexed Crimea and the Donbass in 2014, the specter of Ukraine in NATO was effectively banished. Didn't put a stop to the hostilities and the Russian preparations for a larger-scale invasion of all of Ukraine. And last but not least, Russia just had to put up with 1300 kilometers of new NATO border (with Finland) without seeming too bothered by that.

My conclusion is that the political development which truly scared Putin wasn't so much Ukraine joining NATO, but rather Ukraine joining the EU and, more broadly speaking, the Western sphere of influence.


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https://asia.nikkei.com/Editor-s-Picks/China-up-close/Analysis-Putin-promises-Xi-to-fight-for-five-years-in-Ukraine

A recent article from a Japanese newspaper of record in which an unnamed source ( ) claims that Putin prepared Xi for another 5 years of war in Ukraine, which surprised and scared Xi, causing him to second-guess his plans to invade Taiwan after realizing how costly such a move can be. This would fit with the Western narrative that standing up to Russian aggression in Ukraine was necessary not just in its own right, but also to deter China from invading Taiwan - a move which would have had far more serious economic and technological ramifications for the West than losing Ukraine to the Russians. But to be fair, I can't really tell how credible this article and its source are.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 29 2023 05:48pm

This is pretty obvious IMO. Sad that a ton of people have to pretend NATO is somehow the aggressor to start this war.

While I generally agree, it should be noted that Russia only has a population of 145m, compared with 42m for Ukraine. The numbers advantage in terms of population and GDP was far less lopsided in the invader's favor than it usually is for successful invasions. Particularly since the defender knew the invasion was coming and had been preparing for it for almost a decade.

My point is that given this starting position, it was asinine for Russian leadership to try to pull off this invasion without going all out from the get go. It's clear that the Russians vastly overestimated the capacities and competence of their military and vastly misjudged the Ukrainian resilience and the Western resolve.

It can't be completely ruled out yet that Russia might be able to grind out a technical ""win"" in the end (one in which the spoils are outweighed multifold by the costs), but this whole process has indeed been embarrassing for the Russians.

This post was edited by Black XistenZ on Dec 29 2023 05:46pm