Quote (ferdia @ 29 Dec 2023 14:28)
If the US had simply said no to the Ukrainian (and American) adventure (of Ukraine in Nato) there might never have been a war. It's all semantics now of course. The proverbial ship has sailed. Ceding land to Russia in exchange for Nato membership would (in my opinion) NOT have prevented this war, and would not have happened anyway. ("we are all of ukraine, we want to be in nato, and we will cede land to you, russia in order to do this") (russia: no).
It remains to be seen what happens next.
I had a good chat during my holidays with some folks who have convinced me this war was necessary for Ukranians as a nation building experience. The country was divided before across two distinct identities that existed under USSR and had little quarrel with Russia besides the shallow "hurr, durr soviets opressed us". But "soviets" were too of a generic of a group to hate that included Ukranians themselves and you cannot build a nation around it.
This war is forging a new identity using hatred for Russia - hence abundance of absolutely braindead propaganda and requirement of tremendous suffering needed by the common folk in order to ensure generational trauma so that people that lost a brother or a father would never realign with Russia again. Hence the scuttling of a ceasefire and slow deliveries of weapons to ensure Ukraine can’t win, but has to suffer greatly. Sounds extremely cynical.
Quote (Prox1m1ty @ 29 Dec 2023 14:41)
Utter bollocks. Stop passing the buck from Putin, its pathetic.
Here is the buck from our UK experts:
This post was edited by Malopox on Dec 29 2023 08:06am