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Apr 8 2022 01:28pm
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 8 2022 08:21pm)
I'm not letting it go. Ukraine has used hundreds of Tochka's over the past 8 years, often against civilian targets. In many, MANY verified instances.

Russia has not, they aren't even using the murder weapon in question in Ukraine.

It's really quite simple, unless you just really, REALLY want to blame Russia for something they didn't do, no matter what.

In that case, go right ahead - doesn't make it the truth, though.


in 2-4 days there will be another story just like this one and it will continue on and on for a while. some will be true some will not be true.
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Apr 8 2022 01:32pm
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 8 2022 02:26pm)
No, I have no credibility with the "Everything is always Russia's fault-ers, facts be damned" crowd which is basically just you and a handful of others.

I could care less whether I have credibility with such people or not. They only hate me because I won't join them in blindly hating Russia because of some propaganda fakes that are easily disprovable.

As for your "mountains" of evidence, this only comes from shill twitter accounts posting misleading tweets and Ukraine government websites.

Meanwhile, we have ACTUAL mountains of evidence that Ukraine has been using the Tochka system as their main ballistic missile for the past 8 years and has killed hundreds of civilians with them going all the way back to 2014.

Suck on that.


LMAO, your "mountains of evidence" sources are "this isn't believable" so it must be false.

You have no evidence for virtually anything you post. Almost no links, just "no mans, it just ain't reals."
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Apr 8 2022 01:35pm
Anyway, I've been meaning to post the latest article from Moon of Alabama debunking the Kramatorsk railway station bombing false flag but kept getting distracted by the usual gullible children that believe every lie from Ukraine:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/04/a-ukrainian-tochka-u-missile-killed-dozens-at-kramatorsk-train-station.html

This article pretty much addresses all the propaganda the gullible children have posted about this so far:

Quote


Russia, unlike the Ukraine, is no longer using Tochka-U missiles. They have been replaced by Iskandar missile systems. As the not recently edited Wikipedia entry about Tochka operators says:

Russia - 220 launchers. Missile systems have been upgraded since 2004 (replacing the onboard automated control systems) and are scheduled to be replaced by the 9K720 Iskander missiles by 2020
In a March 16 press release Russia denied that its forces still use Tochka-U missiles:

UNITED NATIONS, March 16. /TASS/. Tochka-U tactical missiles are not in service in Russian Armed Forces, Russian mission to the UN said in its letter to the UN Security Council and General Assembly.
"Given the proven record of the Kiev regime promoting false allegations and fake evidence, it should be noted that Tochka-U tactical missiles are not in service in the Russian Armed Forces," the letter says.

Ukraine, which has retained some 90 launcher systems for Tochka-U missiles from Soviet times, has recently fired several of these against Russian and Donbas forces.

I have failed to find any recent reports of the use of Tochka missiles by Russian forces.

This clipping from the most recent Southfront map shows Kramatorsk right in the middle and not immediately near the frontline.


A current situation report says that Russia has recently systematically disabled train tracks along the Ukrainian supply lines to the Donbas front:

As the big showdown in Donbass looms, a lot of forces are pouring in on both sides. Russia has shifted strategies and is now striking railway stations and reinforcement hubs / corridors, as many have hoped it would do. Overnight there were several reports of important railway hubs being hit by missiles. One near Zhytomir, which is possibly the single most important reinforcement hub to the frontlines in all of western Ukraine. Reinforcements being sent to frontlines were reportedly destroyed in the strike, though there’s no visual confirmation. And another in Kharkov region – just south, in Lozovaya – which evoked a video message plea from the Kharkov mayor who said railways were hit, oil has run out, but pleaded for people not to flee (presumably because the militants who control him need citizens to use as hostages / human shields just like in Mariupol).
...
As can be seen on this map, the Lozovaya junction is a critical resupply / reinforcement route for the Ukrop Donbass cauldron and specifically their stronghold of Kramatorsk, which had been the central headquarters of the entire JFO for some time. And other reports said a railway bridge was hit leading to that junction as well.


Of note is that so far all Russian attacks on train junctions were reported to have happened at night time.

As Russia has already interrupted the train lines west of Kramatorsk, and thereby stopped resupplies to it, it has no need to attack Kramatorsk station at all.
It is therefore almost assured that it was a Ukrainian missile that today hit Kramatorsk station. It was either aimed badly, went off course or was intentionally aimed at it for propaganda purposes. (The 'for the children' marking in Russian on the booster section may point to the later cause.)
We have no further information for us to decide which is the case.


So basically, it has been proven that Ukraine has (once again) lied about an atrocity they committed to blame on Russia.

They are sick, disgusting war-criminals and the day will come when they will be held accountable for their constant lying, mass murder, and misdirection.

This post was edited by chopstickz777 on Apr 8 2022 01:35pm
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Apr 8 2022 01:40pm
Quote (chopstickz777 @ Apr 8 2022 12:35pm)
Anyway, I've been meaning to post the latest article from Moon of Alabama debunking the Kramatorsk railway station bombing false flag but kept getting distracted by the usual gullible children that believe every lie from Ukraine:

https://www.moonofalabama.org/2022/04/a-ukrainian-tochka-u-missile-killed-dozens-at-kramatorsk-train-station.html

This article pretty much addresses all the propaganda the gullible children have posted about this so far:



So basically, it has been proven that Ukraine has (once again) lied about an atrocity they committed to blame on Russia.

They are sick, disgusting war-criminals and the day will come when they will be held accountable for their constant lying, mass murder, and misdirection.


yes who would ever doubt the reporting prowess of "where barflies get together"
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Apr 8 2022 01:41pm
Russia wouldn't hurt a fly. The only think Vladimir Putin is dropping on Ukrainian civilians is bread baskets to feed starving children, that's what his foreign minister said on the radio.
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Apr 8 2022 01:41pm
https://twitter.com/RWApodcast/status/1512512283204804610?cxt=HHwWhICz7Y36wv0pAAAA

In a nutshell:

"ukrainian soldier: *commits war crime, posts video of himself committing war crime, says "haha just like i did for eight years lol!"*

westoids: "hmm.. unclear what happened here"

*ukrainian missile from ukrainian territory lands somewhere*

westoids: "why would russia do this?"

So what do the "everything is always Russia's fault-ers" have to say about the witnesses in Kramatorsk who saw the Tochka fly from Ukrainian-held territory to the railway station?
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Apr 8 2022 01:45pm
Quote (theCrossbones @ Apr 8 2022 01:40pm)
yes who would ever doubt the reporting prowess of "where barflies get together"


I don't expect people who don't have brains to actually read anything half-way reasonable, but this Kramatorsk false flag is like the lowest of the low hanging fruit that is just TOO easy to disprove.

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Apr 8 2022 01:46pm
Quote (ferdia @ Apr 8 2022 01:28pm)
in 2-4 days there will be another story just like this one and it will continue on and on for a while. some will be true some will not be true.


More like every 12-24 hours at this rate. Ukraine has gone full-blown propaganda mode to a level not seen in many decades and it is effective because it's being co-ordinated with the US/Euro mainstream media and intelligence agencies, around the clock, 24/7.
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Apr 8 2022 01:48pm
I'm gonna stop you from posting 4 in a row
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Apr 8 2022 01:48pm
Quote (Goomshill @ Apr 8 2022 01:41pm)
Russia wouldn't hurt a fly. The only think Vladimir Putin is dropping on Ukrainian civilians is bread baskets to feed starving children, that's what his foreign minister said on the radio.


Russians have always been bad at propaganda.

In-fact, the info war aspect of this war is the ONLY part of it that they are actually losing.

Of-course, it doesn't help them that 90% of the 'west' will believe anything the TV tells them, no matter how stupid and fake it actually is.
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