Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 27 2023 05:52pm)

A full scale invasion doesn't happen with 200k troops in a country of 40+million at the time. That's not even enough to storm Kiev. It was very clearly a feint, more of a scare tactic.

A good example of what a full scale invasion may look like of similar sized country is in 1939 Germany invaded Poland with 1.5 million men which at the time was a country of like 35 million people.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Nov 27 2023 01:09pm)

Yes it does. An occupation is different.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 27 2023 08:40pm)

Google is your friend

Initial attack was basically a 2:1 ratio of Germans attacking the ~1 million or so Polish force. Subsequent occupation was much smaller, because the Germans could then rely on domestic help to rule and at that point Polish army was disarmed and disbanded.

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Nov 27 2023 03:42pm)

Not following your thought process.

My post refers to your initial statement of
"A full scale invasion doesn't happen with 200k troops in a country of 40+million at the time."

Yes, it can and does happen. An occupation is a different story.

Comprehension is your friend.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 27 2023 08:49pm)

You are clearly confused on what a 'full scale invasion' means. Someone can invade a country with 300 people, that doesn't mean it rises to 'full scale'.

The example I gave of Germany vs Poland is a example of a full scale invasion, I used it because Ukraine had a similar population size. If the Germans used 1.5 million people to invade a country of 35 million you really buy that the Russians would send 200k vs 43 million as 'full scale'?

Quote (Prox1m1ty @ Nov 27 2023 03:53pm)

Absolutely.

That's a terrible comparison. War in 1945 and war in 2022 are virtually incomparable.

The Russian army in 1945 was over 11 million. Today its closer to 1 million.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 27 2023 08:59pm)

I'm illustrating ratios of warfare that still hold true, doesn't matter if it's 1939 or 2020. Only caveat is if one of the parties is exceedingly advanced compared to the other, in which case you wouldn't use those ratios. So you wouldn't use this ratio when comparing US to Vietnam or Korean wars, because the US is exponentially more advanced.

Those numbers actually prove my point. A full scale war would mean mobilization of large swaths of your population. WW2 was a full scale war that's why their army was so much bigger compared to what it is today.

Quote (ofthevoid @ 27 Nov 2023 18:52)

A full scale invasion doesn't happen with 200k troops in a country of 40+million at the time. That's not even enough to storm Kiev. It was very clearly a feint, more of a scare tactic.

A good example of what a full scale invasion may look like of similar sized country is in 1939 Germany invaded Poland with 1.5 million men which at the time was a country of like 35 million people.

Quote (Black XistenZ @ Nov 28 2023 09:47pm)

You're rationalizing Russia's incompetence as a feint. :rolleyes:

Russia was not able to adequately reinforce their invasion troops when they tried to lay siege on Kyiv and Kharkiv because they did not have a lot of fight-ready troops waiting in reserve. We know this from the fall 2022 counteroffensive, when the Russian frontlines crumbled in the north and east and they lost significant ground before being able to stabilize the front. But at the same time, Russia threw many of its best troops at Kyiv, lost tons of men and materiel and waited for weeks while getting bled dry by the Ukrainian strike forces before finally retreating. If a feint had been the goal of the advance on Kyiv all along, they would have retreated earlier, and they would have sent the Wagner orcs as cannon fodder, rather than sending of some of their best troops.

Quote (ofthevoid @ Nov 27 2023 08:49pm)

You are clearly confused on what a 'full scale invasion' means. Someone can invade a country with 300 people, that doesn't mean it rises to 'full scale'.

The example I gave of Germany vs Poland is a example of a full scale invasion, I used it because Ukraine had a similar population size. If the Germans used 1.5 million people to invade a country of 35 million you really buy that the Russians would send 200k vs 43 million as 'full scale'?